George Foreman vs. Lennox Lewis

[Yogi]

P.S. Don't take that post as me dis*****g Foreman strength, Heckler.

[Heckler]

Out of curiousity, was Foreman "definately" the strongest man to step into the ring or "possibly" the strongest man to have ever entered the ring?

And another thing...

Seeing as you quote him or bring up his personal opinions so often, are you Monte's disciple or something?

I should've said Possibly. Sorry i tend to focus on arguing rather than adhering to the conventions of the english language. Also, i see you quoting 'the ring' quite often. Are you hired by them to spread the word by any chance? Were you deemed the 'chosen one' by Nat?

I quote Monte Cox because he is a reputable Historian with articles and views easily accessible. I think hes a brilliant historian who presents his argument without the slanted views that are all too common among boxing enthusiasts and other historians. Believe it or not, i work and go to university thus don't always have time to sift through **** and get the quotes i would like.

[Yogi]

I should've said Possibly. Sorry i tend to focus on arguing rather than adhering to the conventions of the english language. Also, i see you quoting 'the ring' quite often. Are you hired by them to spread the word by any chance? Were you deemed the 'chosen one' by Nat?

I quote Monte Cox because he is a reputable Historian with articles and views easily accessible. I think hes a brilliant historian who presents his argument without the slanted views that are all too common among boxing enthusiasts and other historians. Believe it or not, i work and go to university thus don't always have time to sift through **** and get the quotes i would like.

Yes, I'm the chosen one and seeing as you & I are on such good terms, please...call me Nigel for now on.

Nah, but seriously, I don't believe I've ever really tried to back up my own personal opinion with one of their writer's opinions, have I?

I know I've quoted their rankings on occasion and other more factual information like that, but off-hand I don't recall a time when I attempted to back up my own opinions with their own.


And Monte is a smart guy, for sure, whose opinions I respect a good deal because I know they're of the informed variety, even though I may not personally agree with him on all issues. But put it this way...Hank Kaplan is generally considered the premier boxing historian of the last fifty years (Monte himself has a TREMENDOUS amount of respect for Hank, as does any boxing 'historian' out there), and it is well known that he thinks a great deal of the talents of one Lennox Lewis. He speaks very, very well of Lewis' athletic ability, technical boxing abilty, and definately punching ability ("greatest right hand in the history of the heavyweight division and I would dare anyone to challenge that", so says Hank of Lewis). And in fact, Hank Kaplan also stated his opinion that in head-to-head matchups involving the greatest Heavyweights, he'd favour Lewis to finish with the overall best record out of all of them...Now do I agree with Kaplan's thoughts on Lewis? Well, I do respect them obviously because of who's stating that opinion, but no I don't quite agree with them. And besides as an example for this thread, nor would I bring them up to try to make my own opinion(s) seem more 'right'.


Ok, enough of that stuff...You want to focus on arguing or debating about Foreman's strength, I see. Well then let me ask you a question...

In your opinion, how is George Foreman stronger than say, George Godfrey, whose another historical Heavyweight noted for having tremendous physical strength?

[Heckler]

Ill be honest Yogi, i simply do not know enough about Godfrey to debate. I know he was a pretty sucessful negro fighter that trained under blackburn and fought Langford, but thats the extent of my knowledge. Why i do generally believe Foreman to be as strong as jeffries if not the strongest HW of all time is because most historians i have come across note this. They dedicate their lives to boxing history, gather information and make judgements that i simply cannot. And in this case im willing to accept what i percieve as the general view among these historians. Ill conceed that my level of knowledge in regard to boxing history does not come close to competing with your own which has become quite apparent during this debate.

PS: I do not use the opinions of Monte Cox to make mine seem 'more right' I merely post them to give some insight to other people on the msgboard. Quite often Monte's opinions differ from my own.

[smasher]

Seeing as you quote him or bring up his personal opinions so often, are you Monte's disciple or something?

I've spoken to Monte many times online and awhile ago after another Monte Cox reference from Heckler, I dropped Monte a line and playfully accused him of being Heckler (He was Montrose on another site). Anyway Monte wrote back and after reading through some forums told me that the number of times this Heckler was quoting him, he could see why I thought that!

[Heckler]

LOL... im not quite Monte Cox and i thought this would be apparent from my crap english... which isn't my first language. I cant actually recall quoting cox intensively in any other thread other then this one.

[smasher]

LOL... im not quite Monte Cox and i thought this would be apparent from my crap english... which isn't my first language. I cant actually recall quoting cox intensively in any other thread other then this one.

You quoted Monte on an earlier thread where reference was made to a 1991 letter Cox wrote to Ring Magazine (something about ALI), that's the one that I told Monte about. I did notice you swore more than Monte. I thought you might be Monte's evil sub-conscious lashing out at the boxing ignorant...

[Yogi]

Jakob 'Monte' Cox...a.k.a. Heckler.

[Yogi]

Why i do generally believe Foreman to be as strong as jeffries if not the strongest HW of all time is because most historians i have come across note this. They dedicate their lives to boxing history, gather information and make judgements that i simply cannot. And in this case im willing to accept what i percieve as the general view among these historians.

Hey, if you've come up with a balanced or consensus opinion on who the strongest Heavyweight of all-time is and you're basing that on what you've read from what you percieve to be reliable sources, then ****...I do something along the same lines with fighters (when footage of said fighter is lacking in quantity or quality) when it comes to determining just how great they were in their respective eras and how their respective "greatness" might compare to others of different eras.

Whether Foreman was the strongest or not, there's really no denying that he was right near the top of the all-time list in that category and we can see that strength evident in what we can actually see of him (like when he gave the 200 pound Boone Kirkman a two-handed shove to canvas to begin their fight). At the same time we can also see alittle bit of fight footage or that sparring footage of Jeffries where he completely man handles that guy in training, as he's picking him up and throwing his sparring mate around in circles like a rag doll. Ditto for a guy like Primo Carnera (the historian whom I most respect picks him as the strongest of all-time), whose strength was pretty legendary even before becoming a boxer and at the same time we can see him push a 200 pound guy off balance & halfway across the ring by only using one hand. Then we can also see Big George Godfrey repeatedly push Carnera back to the ropes over & over again from the footage of that fight that's available and maybe one might get the impression that Godfrey was physically stronger than Da' Preem...*shrugs*

Of course, we can also read contemporary writings of each of these fighters' great strength by those were in a better position to judge them than we are today, as we can of other fighters who were thought of as possessing great strength like Sullivan, Willard, etc...It might depend on how much you read of each of them and the descriptions of their physical strength, which is what you're alluding to.

Is Foreman the strongest Heavyweight of all-time?

Hmm..."possibly".

Then again, that disticntion might "possibly" belong to Jeffries, Carnera, Godfrey, or someone else named or even not named.

[butterfly1964]

Hey, if you've come up with a balanced or consensus opinion on who the strongest Heavyweight of all-time is and you're basing that on what you've read from what you percieve to be reliable sources, then ****...I do something along the same lines with fighters (when footage of said fighter is lacking in quantity or quality) when it comes to determining just how great they were in their respective eras and how their respective "greatness" might compare to others of different eras.

Whether Foreman was the strongest or not, there's really no denying that he was right near the top of the all-time list in that category and we can see that strength evident in what we can actually see of him (like when he gave the 200 pound Boone Kirkman a two-handed shove to canvas to begin their fight). At the same time we can also see alittle bit of fight footage or that sparring footage of Jeffries where he completely man handles that guy in training, as he's picking him up and throwing his sparring mate around in circles like a rag doll. Ditto for a guy like Primo Carnera (the historian whom I most respect picks him as the strongest of all-time), whose strength was pretty legendary even before becoming a boxer and at the same time we can see him push a 200 pound guy off balance & halfway across the ring by only using one hand. Then we can also see Big George Godfrey repeatedly push Carnera back to the ropes over & over again from the footage of that fight that's available and maybe one might get the impression that Godfrey was physically stronger than Da' Preem...*shrugs*

Of course, we can also read contemporary writings of each of these fighters' great strength by those were in a better position to judge them than we are today, as we can of other fighters who were thought of as possessing great strength like Sullivan, Willard, etc...It might depend on how much you read of each of them and the descriptions of their physical strength, which is what you're alluding to.

Is Foreman the strongest Heavyweight of all-time?

Hmm..."possibly".

Then again, that disticntion might "possibly" belong to Jeffries, Carnera, Godfrey, or someone else named or even not named.

what about muhammad ali?