Leonard vs Hagler

[Ham Porter]

Please don't talk as if Leonard did something incredible or looked outstanding!

But he did do something incredible; anything less than that description to describe what Leonard did is revisionist history. To beat Hagler is an outstanding achievement in itself - but to do it coming off of a three year layoff, with only one fight in the previous five years and having never even fought at the weight - that's utterly insane. How many other examples can you list with similar circumstances?

[BattlingNelson]

That's not how it works..Shoulda Coulda Woulda is irrelevenant..Hagler took the fight
thinking he was gonna destroy Leonard...and he BLEW IT!!..he lost cuz..

Most people thought that. Some genuinely worried about Leonards health. Hagler was still the monster man. The undisputed best middleweight on the planet by a good margin. This was an outstanding and deserved win for Leonard and even more so because he came out of retirement for this fight. One of the best wins in boxing history.

[FightFit]

But he did do something incredible; anything less than that description to describe what Leonard did is revisionist history. To beat Hagler is an outstanding achievement in itself - but to do it coming off of a three year layoff, with only one fight in the previous five years and having never even fought at the weight - that's utterly insane. How many other examples can you list with similar circumstances?

I agree with you it was a hell of an achievement,but ray also admitted to knowing it was the right time to fight marvin after the too had dinner hagler was speaking about retirement,ray kinda mugged him so i was told he was training hard and sparring middleweights for a year prior to the bout but none the less it was a brilliant win ray was definitely a smart mover outside the ring as much as he was inside one of the greats.

[Humean]

I always score it for Hagler, they both seem to land roughly the same amount of punches, perhaps Leonard slightly more, but Hagler's punches were generally a lot harder than Leonard's. Leonard's flashy, fast but not usually powerful combinations and flurries near the end of rounds continues to hoodwink people into thinking that he won the fight.

[billeau2]

Please don't talk as if Leonard did something incredible or looked outstanding!
Fact is he waited till Haglers legs were done and then offered Marvin a decent pay day. Leonard wanted nothing to do with Hagler years earlier and for good reason. Leonard at that time wasn't exactly throwing bombs either but he got his legs in shape and was on the move throughout the bout.
In their prime I think Hagler hunts Leonard down and in their day the 15 rounder would be tuff on Leonard with Hagler stalking. Hagler had a nice double jab and that helped cutting the distance down and Hagler had all the punches like Leonard plus punched abit harder than Ray.
Theres always the debate of outscoring someone with light hearted punches while on the move as opposed to the man forcing the issue and not landing as much! I didn't pay that much attention to that fight because it was beyond their best but I did watch it. Ray was as smart outside the ring as he was inside and I do believe he's a tuff matchup for Marvin to begin with but I hated how Leonard went about his business then. It reminds me of how Mayweather & Hopkins and Calzaghe operate as far as who they fight and "when" they fight them.
I'd have to watch the bout again but I favor the guy pressing as long as he's scoring too. Theres a difference between moving and running and if I remember the fight correctly Leonard did both!
Not a big debate really, Leonard was a top tier welter and Hagler was a top tier middle. Both could compete in any era and both would be beaten in their own weight classes by the REAL Sugar Ray anyways!!!HA!!! Ray.

those championship rounds make the difference I miss them! I agree that earlier, with the 15 round limit, Hagler would persevere.

[Trenchant]

Yeah, I admit that he won but he definitely waited until Hagler slowed down to make the fight. So, you can't just not mention that fact.

[Ham Porter]

No, you can just mention the fact that he was coming into that fight at a considerably worse disadvantage than Hagler was.

[Sugarj]

No, you can just mention the fact that he was coming into that fight at a considerably worse disadvantage than Hagler was.

This is true, Leonard was;

1) three years out of the ring

2) in a brand new weight division

3) He'd been near as dammit knocked out a few days earlier by Quincy Taylor

4) Hagler was ranked pound for pound number 1 by many fans/experts at the time.


That he lasted the distance in itself was a remarkable achievement......

[CHEECH]

leonard was knocked off balance by kevin howard in his other comeback attempt preceding the hagler fight but stopped howard later in the fight. one helluva feat coming back to go stride for stride with hagler even if hagler was reduced to fighting only once a year for a couple years prior. even if u have hagler ahead by a point or two u gotta give leonard credit