Why could past ATGs knock out guys 40 pounds bigger than them...

[StarshipTrooper]

Wlad is something of a one trick pony but this trick is pretty damn effective.

Sure it is......against the crap and other human detritus floating around the cesspool that is today's Heavyweight division. In a stronger era it would look significantly less impressive.

[StarshipTrooper]

but his foot speed and movement is what I consider deficient.

So is Wlad's. I've seen statues with more mobilty.

[Humean]

Nor does it follow that it has anywhere near the impact you're making out.

How much of an impact have I suggested it had? I think i've only suggested it will have had some impact over time and that to deny it is to bury your head in the sand. More particularly that it will have had a fairly sizable impact when comparing the modern fighter with an early 20th century one. That much is so obvious that it is pretty undefensible to deny it.

[StarshipTrooper]

How much of an impact have I suggested it had? I think i've only suggested it will have had some impact over time and that to deny it is to bury your head in the sand. More particularly that it will have had a fairly sizable impact when comparing the modern fighter with an early 20th century one. That much is so obvious that it is pretty undefensible to deny it.

Skill trumps athleticism in damn near every sport not named track and field. This is ESPECIALLY true in boxing. That much is so obvious that it's pretty indefensible to deny it. And in denying it you're giving athleticism more impact in boxing than it actually has.

[Humean]

1moround..........true statement......very accurate too.........the main reason is that the men from the past who were "full time" fought twice a month and some every week to 10 days for three or four years out of their 12 to 16 year careers. Mixed in these schedules was a match 3 or 4 times a year against contenders. Theres no gym time that takes the place of fight time!
The modern day fighters fought 65 to 200 times, the current accomplished fighters retire with 50 to 60 over the same period of time.
Not sure how
"more modern training techniques" apply!!! Experience in boxing is a huge advantage right down to the "trial horses"!! Nothing takes the place of practical experiences.
Ray

Have you failed to notice amateur boxing? Also fighting as common as fighters did back then had an impact upon their brains thus deteriorating their abilities long before they would now. Consistent failure to recover from concussions or sub-concussions because of fighting so often leads to brain damage, to chronic traumatic encephalopathy. That is hardly conducive to maintaining your skills.

[Ray Corso]

debate ll you care to for me the bottom line is what I see not read! When I evaluate their talent levels Wlad is not in the mix. I don't badger or degrade Wlads efforts because he is willing and thats important to me.
I know of no experienced historian or a person whose been involved in the sport for a life time that puts Wlads skills up against Joe Louis.
That doesn't mean that Wlas can't succeed over Louis but from a technical stand point considering methods and techniques they are miles apart. Louis was far ahead of his time so to consider his talents are 1930s thru the 40s is not accurate at all! He was inventive in putting together combos and working a man from botton to top with both hands on both sides equally (right hand more so up the middle) he was far ahead of his time.
I do believe that Louis was a troubled young man and his condition did effect him at times in his career.
I had an old friend who donated time to my gym who at one time was Joe Louis's main sparring partner. He related so many interesting insights about Joe to me that made me realize that Louis out worked his opponents in the gym and often times lost interest in a fight during a fight!! My old friend was Georgie Fitch a pretty good fighter in his own right. He and Nate Mann (also from New Haven) enjoyed visuting my gym. Nothing like a boxing gym to get you relaxed and happy again.
I'm drifting............................time to scoot.........nite all. Ray


it rarely effects a fighter during their careers, demencia takes some time to interfer.

[Humean]

Sure it is......against the crap and other human detritus floating around the cesspool that is today's Heavyweight division. In a stronger era it would look significantly less impressive.

Joe Louis's era was terrible too, practically every era bar the early 1970s was terrible at heavyweight. It has pretty much always been the weakest division in boxing. It shouldn't take much intelligence to understand why.

So is Wlad's. I've seen statues with more mobilty.

His style in this fantasy match up with Louis does not need great foot speed. Also you would have a more compelling argument without the hyperbole.

Skill trumps athleticism in damn near every sport not named track and field. This is ESPECIALLY true in boxing. That much is so obvious that it's pretty indefensible to deny it. And in denying it you're giving athleticism more impact in boxing than it actually has.

Track and field, even sprinting, involves more skill than you are giving credit. Do you imagine that 100 metre sprinters do not have coaches? Athleticism is a necessary condition for sporting skill!

[StarshipTrooper]

Joe Louis's era was terrible too, practically every era bar the early 1970s was terrible at heavyweight. It has pretty much always been the weakest division in boxing. It shouldn't take much intelligence to understand why.

I've watching boxing for damn near 40s years and I've never seen a Heavyweight division as bad as this sorry ass era. Louis' era was no where near as bad as this one either and only invincible ignorance or congetital ******ation can explain your claim.

His style in this fantasy match up with Louis does not need great foot speed. Also you would have a more compelling argument without the hyperbole.

You would have a more compelling argument if you knew what the hell you were talking about.....but sadly I fear that's a bridge too far for you.

Track and field, even sprinting, involves more skill than you are giving credit. Do you imagine that 100 metre sprinters do not have coaches?

Athleticism is a necessary condition for sporting skill!

Yeah, because there's SO much skill involved in being naturally able to run fast and jump high.


Tell that to the slow white wide receivers who can't jump that make NFL rosters because of their skill.

[MRBOOMER]

I think fighters from the 1940's and back couldn't compete with today's fighters only a handfull if any. But it does seem like some skill has been loss threw the years. Power punching techniques and defense on the inside like rolling shots catching parrying etc also stamina seemes to have gotten worse for fighters. But as a whole I think boxing has become more refined through the years and old old past greats just couldn't compete there just to slow and uncoordinated

[Humean]

I've watching boxing for damn near 40s years and I've never seen a Heavyweight division as bad as this sorry ass era. Louis' era was no where near as bad as this one either and only invincible ignorance or congetital ******ation can explain your claim.

Maybe you should have been looking closer, near 40s years has not brought much wisdom. I mean what sort of man in his 40s proclaims other people ******s for disagreeing with them?


You would have a more compelling argument if you knew what the hell you were talking about.....but sadly I fear that's a bridge too far for you.

My arguments are compelling because they are actually properly argued for and I can watch video of past fights, I do not need to rely upon unreliable memory to bolster my arguments. In short the length of time watching boxing need not be conducive to having knowledge, comprehension, or insight.





Yeah, because there's SO much skill involved in being naturally able to run fast and jump high.

They have coaches do they not? Are you really so ignorant that you do not know that there is actually technique that needs to be taught and refined in sports such as sprinting? Again your age clearly counts for precious little.

Tell that to the slow white wide receivers who can't jump that make NFL rosters because of their skill.

If you deny that athleticism is a necessary condition for sporting skill then it is unclear what simple truths you could possibly comprehend.

comments within quotation marks.