Why could past ATGs knock out guys 40 pounds bigger than them...

[Humean]

Your point is **** and still don't have anything to do with boxing.

/greeh

Thanks for such an intelligent post.

[Ray Corso]

Because Methods & Techniques from a talented boxer will always over ride weight! If a guy is an ordinary talent and he's fighting a more talented fight but out weighs him by 40 pounds that just means he's 40lbs. more ordinary than the talented guy!!

A few times in the past 100 years has the "size measuring stick" become in issue in boxing! Most recently Chavez Jr. at 160 bloating up to 180+ is a topic. The Klits Bros being 6'6"-6'7" when the average heavy after 1970 has been 6'2"-6'3" whats more relavent is reach and if the individual fighter can actually use it as an advantage!! Today Rigo is a small bantam, everyone saw his body size next to Donaire and mass and height was favored by Donaire. Yet the skill level of Rigo prevailed!
Size means alot when it can be used effectively if not its not a BIG deal! HA!!
Ray.

[greeh]

Thanks for such an intelligent post.

**** posts gets **** replies.

/greeh

[Bolo Punch]

**** posts gets **** replies.

/greeh

Fantastic contribution to the thread, my friend.

[Scott9945]

My conjecture is that Canelo will weigh more on fight night than middleweight Ketchel would. Ketchel's fighting weight at middleweight was probably somewhere between 160-165. Canelo will probably weigh between about 163-169. It is not so much that my opinion of Ketchel is low, he was the real deal in his time but that was what he was, a man of his time. Boxing has probably not improved as greatly as other sports over time for a variety of factors, the main one being the inbuilt limitation that weight classes possess. This is important because a big part of the improvement of athletes over time is that they have got bigger and heavier. Boxing weight classes have compensated for that somewhat. Yesterdays heavyweights are todays light heavyweights and cruiserweights.

In short, Canelo is probably bigger than Ketchel.

But the difference is that Ketchell wouldn't have to dehydrate himself to 152 lbs. That will surely take steam out of Canelo and compromise his chances. Recent history has indicated that Mayweather would almost certainly demand a catchweight for Ketchell as well. Ketchell fought hall of famers in their primes, and unless you want to count Alvarez's win over a 40 y/o Mosley, he has beaten absolutely nobody who will get any HOF votes.

[RubenSonny]

For idiots who point to better records in athletics like sprinting/high jump etc that bears no comparison to boxing. Relatively conservative movements/limited technique where you're trying to beat a record in which opponents are irrelevant is going to improve over time (objectively), is absolutely different to a range of dynamic movements and creativity exhibited over a scheduled duration in which the goal is to outpoint an unpredictable opponent, not to mention its a hugely subjective contest.

[Humean]

But the difference is that Ketchell wouldn't have to dehydrate himself to 152 lbs. That will surely take steam out of Canelo and compromise his chances. Recent history has indicated that Mayweather would almost certainly demand a catchweight for Ketchell as well. Ketchell fought hall of famers in their primes, and unless you want to count Alvarez's win over a 40 y/o Mosley, he has beaten absolutely nobody who will get any HOF votes.

Dehydration is only a problem over a certain level. Canelo's chances could certainly be hindered should he make 152 and make it the wrong way. However I think there is a good chance he may not even try to make it.

To be honest compared to the fighters Mayweather has beaten Ketchel's opponents were bums. There are a lot of current fighters, including ones Mayweather has beaten who will rightly not be considered all time greats or hall of famers but are quite considerably better than all time greats and hall of famers from the distant past.

[Humean]

Because Methods & Techniques from a talented boxer will always over ride weight! If a guy is an ordinary talent and he's fighting a more talented fight but out weighs him by 40 pounds that just means he's 40lbs. more ordinary than the talented guy!!

A few times in the past 100 years has the "size measuring stick" become in issue in boxing! Most recently Chavez Jr. at 160 bloating up to 180+ is a topic. The Klits Bros being 6'6"-6'7" when the average heavy after 1970 has been 6'2"-6'3" whats more relavent is reach and if the individual fighter can actually use it as an advantage!! Today Rigo is a small bantam, everyone saw his body size next to Donaire and mass and height was favored by Donaire. Yet the skill level of Rigo prevailed!
Size means alot when it can be used effectively if not its not a BIG deal! HA!!
Ray.

It will only override weight up to a certain point. If what you said was actually true then there would be no need for weight classes. Therefore your point about weight is incorrect, at least in so far as you push the point. Ceteris paribus 40 pounds heavier means greater strength, greater ability to take a punch and greater power in the punch. 40 pounds is a pretty sizable margin, the skill level of the 40 pounds lighter will have to be quite a bit above the heavier man. It can certainly be overcome and it has but that doesn't mean weight is somehow not significant.

Rigondeaux and Donaire were not that drastically different in size.

[Humean]

For idiots who point to better records in athletics like sprinting/high jump etc that bears no comparison to boxing. Relatively conservative movements/limited technique where you're trying to beat a record in which opponents are irrelevant is going to improve over time (objectively), is absolutely different to a range of dynamic movements and creativity exhibited over a scheduled duration in which the goal is to outpoint an unpredictable opponent, not to mention its a hugely subjective contest.

Speed, physical strength and stamina are somehow irrelevant in boxing? If you are maintaining that they are irrelevant then the idiocy lies with you.

[r.burgundy]

... yet today's fighters, even the great ones, get up in arms over catchweights, 2 pound advantages, etc.?


Sam Langford, a natural lightweight/welterweight, had no problems jumping in the ring with a light-heavyweight or even a heavyweight; often he'd tear them apart.

I realize a guy like Langford is a once-in-a-century fighter, but seriously? We've already sub-divided the original eight weight classes into virtual catchweights as it is. Now we've got fights at catchweights within catchweights. Where are the men who are willing to say, "I don't care how big he is or how small I am. Put me in the ring with him and I'll whip his a$$."?


/Rant.

i cant think of any great or elite fighter who was ko'd by somebody 40 lbs lighter than thembut even in general,fighters today are huge.i cant by any stretch of imagination see langford competitice against a klitscho,or bowe.guys in this ear are huge.guys in that era may outweigh you by 40lbs of flab.if you wanna see big guys ko smaller guys,you will only find that in specific eras