Mythical Match Up #2: Riddick Bowe vs. Lennox Lewis (Fall, 1994)

[beez721]

No way in hell was Ruddock's chin on the level of Bowe's. Not even close. I wouldn't consider Ruddock to have an overly good chin.

Bowe definitely had a better jab aswell.

I don't see a single area that Ruddock was better than Bowe.

I don't agree with your first sentence. Ruddock fought much bigger punchers throughout his career and went a long ways with Tyson in 2 fights. bowe had the label of having a weak chin in his amateur days and rock newman steered him away from big punchers in the pro ranks. the biggest puncher bowe ever fought was probably golota and even he wasn't a big one punch guy. that's not to say bowe's chin was glass but I think it was rather untested to a degree. bowe was a much better boxer overall than Ruddock and probably would have stopped Ruddock late if he could stay away from that smash of a left hook which he probably would. I really thought bowe was going to achieve greatness but laziness cut his career short

[Sugarj]

I agree with a lot of this however I do not think Holly was better as you do. When Holly first came up to heavyweight he was a blown up cruiser and fought like a cruiser. Beating Bowe proved that he could fight at that level but, his strategy and lack of heavyweight experience caused him problems (IMO). As a matter of fact, regardless of Bowe's condition, Holly beat Bowe by boxing him....Not a natural proclivity for Holly! When Holly fights Tyson he beats him by putting iron Mike on his heels (unbalanced) and attacking him. To me this version of Holly is stronger, wiser, and more experienced as a heavyweight.

Holly always was a puncher/swarmer masquerading as a boxer. his apex in the heavyweight division was contingent on getting enough experience as a heavyweight, developing his power (he may have been the same weight but his muscle mass/roid mass? was greater in the version that fought Tyson) and being able to combine that with work rate. My point is that Bowe had a substandard version of Holyfield to work with.

Very doubtful. If you watch the Holyfield from Bowe 1 & 2, then watch his 1996 encounter with Tyson.....he had clearly declined. Both efforts against Bowe were prime performances from Holyfield which demonstrated fantastic athleticism, work rate and combination punches of a near Ali standard. He was no longer the blown up cruiser; he'd been handling big heavyweights for two or three years at this point and had taken some sickening whacks from George Foreman enroute.

The 1996 Holyfield was not as fast, his combinations were less crisp and his work rate was much reduced. At the time many were stunned by his win over Tyson. But in hindsight looking back, were his victories over 'that' version of Tyson or Moorer really that impressive? It was only 12 months previous to his first Tyson win that he was stopped by a very slow and sluggish version of Bowe........even if he did have a cold, he really struggled fighting in the same style that shaded him the second fight.

There does seem to be a body of thought in these parts which would agree with you that the Holyfield that met Tyson in 1996/97 was a superior force at heavyweight. But not me; to my eyes the Holyfield of 1991/92 was one of the finest heavyweights I've seen. The Holyfield that lost to Bowe first time around was spectacular, I'm sure he'd have beaten many an all time great on even that losing performance. His speed, combination work, stamina and heart were on full show.

Its certainly arguable that the heavier, older version of Holyfield who had really mastered clinching, leaning on and pacing (not to mention work with the head!) was better suited to beating the post prime second coming of Mike Tyson. But was 'that' Tyson anything really special? I honestly think that 1996 Holyfield loses to any versions of the Riddick Bowe that he did meet earlier.

[beez721]

Very doubtful. If you watch the Holyfield from Bowe 1 & 2, then watch his 1996 encounter with Tyson.....he had clearly declined. Both efforts against Bowe were prime performances from Holyfield which demonstrated fantastic athleticism, work rate and combination punches of a near Ali standard. He was no longer the blown up cruiser; he'd been handling big heavyweights for two or three years at this point and had taken some sickening whacks from George Foreman enroute.

The 1996 Holyfield was not as fast, his combinations were less crisp and his work rate was much reduced. At the time many were stunned by his win over Tyson. But in hindsight looking back, were his victories over 'that' version of Tyson or Moorer really that impressive? It was only 12 months previous to his first Tyson win that he was stopped by a very slow and sluggish version of Bowe........even if he did have a cold, he really struggled fighting in the same style that shaded him the second fight.

There does seem to be a body of thought in these parts which would agree with you that the Holyfield that met Tyson in 1996/97 was a superior force at heavyweight. But not me; to my eyes the Holyfield of 1991/92 was one of the finest heavyweights I've seen. The Holyfield that lost to Bowe first time around was spectacular, I'm sure he'd have beaten many an all time great on even that losing performance. His speed, combination work, stamina and heart were on full show.

Its certainly arguable that the heavier, older version of Holyfield who had really mastered clinching, leaning on and pacing (not to mention work with the head!) was better suited to beating the post prime second coming of Mike Tyson. But was 'that' Tyson anything really special? I honestly think that 1996 Holyfield loses to any versions of the Riddick Bowe that he did meet earlier.

holyfields strength and punching power definitely increased as he added some weight after that first bowe fight but his overall hand/foot speed and combination punching was never any better than when he first moved up to heavyweight against the likes of dokes and foreman. I kinda think that first bowe fight took a bit from him altho he did better in the second fight against a somewhat out of shape bowe

[Sugarj]

holyfields strength and punching power definitely increased as he added some weight after that first bowe fight but his overall hand/foot speed and combination punching was never any better than when he first moved up to heavyweight against the likes of dokes and foreman. I kinda think that first bowe fight took a bit from him altho he did better in the second fight against a somewhat out of shape bowe

I agree with you and would add work rate to the fantastic hand and foot speed too; I've always fancied that the Holyfield who lost to Bowe first time would have won their second fight by an even greater margin (even though Steward's tactics were to be commended for the return).

Second time round Bowe was still very good, but just a touch overweight and his work rate suffered, I think the Holyfield from fight one would have simply been too lively down the stretch.

In the early 90s Holyfield was berated as this pumped up cruiserweight with little power whose reputation thrived on beating overweight (Buster Douglas) or over the hill (Foreman/Holmes) heavyweights. I think that many still hold him wrongly in that esteem. But in hindsight those victories look better as the decades pass. Holmes and Foreman fought very well against a superb version of Holyfield.....and they both went on to several decent performances in the 90s after meeting Holyfield. A KO of Douglas was no easy feat either, even if he was unmotivated.

[BKM-2010]

Always believed Lewis would have won and I do think Bowe ducked him. Bowe may have been past his best against Golota but the fights showed how much trouble Bowe would have against another big man with a strong jab and straight punches. Bowe had terrible defense, and Lewis was strong enough to nullify his inside game.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I don't agree with your first sentence. Ruddock fought much bigger punchers throughout his career and went a long ways with Tyson in 2 fights. bowe had the label of having a weak chin in his amateur days and rock newman steered him away from big punchers in the pro ranks. the biggest puncher bowe ever fought was probably golota and even he wasn't a big one punch guy. that's not to say bowe's chin was glass but I think it was rather untested to a degree. bowe was a much better boxer overall than Ruddock and probably would have stopped Ruddock late if he could stay away from that smash of a left hook which he probably would. I really thought bowe was going to achieve greatness but laziness cut his career short

Bowe was much better than ruddock in every department..

Ruddock was a good fighter, solid contender in a very deep heavy division at the time, but bowe was more skilled and the better fighter in general

[billeau2]

No way in hell was Ruddock's chin on the level of Bowe's. Not even close. I wouldn't consider Ruddock to have an overly good chin.

Bowe definitely had a better jab aswell.

I don't see a single area that Ruddock was better than Bowe.

There is another post coming making the case for Ruddock's chin which I will agree with....Dan you are old enough so let me ask you this....If Ruddock had no chin, was so far below Bowe, who as said never fought much in the way of comp aside from the Holly trilogy....WHY was he so touted? Certainly he was a one armed fighter but he had some attributes. Including his chin!

I assume you are NOT inferring from my post that I said Ruddock had a better jab than Bowe. I did intimate that Bowe did not have much of a jab and I stand by that...he was a pawrer!! So the fact that Bowe may have marginally had a better jab that Ruddock, who never saw a punch he liked aside from a left hook....is academic.

I think you, like a lot of guys are overrating Bowe, though again, Futch must have seen something.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I think its basically a 50/50 fight..

What would determine it is how good of shape bowe was in..

I favor lewis by the slightest of margins, due to his jab.. I think his jab would allow him to control bowe, and have the upperhand in ring generalship

[billeau2]

Very doubtful. If you watch the Holyfield from Bowe 1 & 2, then watch his 1996 encounter with Tyson.....he had clearly declined. Both efforts against Bowe were prime performances from Holyfield which demonstrated fantastic athleticism, work rate and combination punches of a near Ali standard. He was no longer the blown up cruiser; he'd been handling big heavyweights for two or three years at this point and had taken some sickening whacks from George Foreman enroute.

The 1996 Holyfield was not as fast, his combinations were less crisp and his work rate was much reduced. At the time many were stunned by his win over Tyson. But in hindsight looking back, were his victories over 'that' version of Tyson or Moorer really that impressive? It was only 12 months previous to his first Tyson win that he was stopped by a very slow and sluggish version of Bowe........even if he did have a cold, he really struggled fighting in the same style that shaded him the second fight.

There does seem to be a body of thought in these parts which would agree with you that the Holyfield that met Tyson in 1996/97 was a superior force at heavyweight. But not me; to my eyes the Holyfield of 1991/92 was one of the finest heavyweights I've seen. The Holyfield that lost to Bowe first time around was spectacular, I'm sure he'd have beaten many an all time great on even that losing performance. His speed, combination work, stamina and heart were on full show.

Its certainly arguable that the heavier, older version of Holyfield who had really mastered clinching, leaning on and pacing (not to mention work with the head!) was better suited to beating the post prime second coming of Mike Tyson. But was 'that' Tyson anything really special? I honestly think that 1996 Holyfield loses to any versions of the Riddick Bowe that he did meet earlier.

Lol on the headbanging...and the chemical enhancements for that matter....You point out that the best version of Holly is debatable and I agree. You definitely make a great case for the first version of Holly....here is another feather in your cap. Hollyfield has always been a guy who could buckle down and at times listen to his corner and at times, defy them and attack attack attack. In the first fight against Bowe IF he had listened to his corner and boxed more he might have been victorious. So one definitely has to factor in that it took considerable skill to match Bowe, a bigger physically stronger opponent...an opponent he could have done much better with using a different strategy. The way he fought that fight was exciting but not smart.

And ditto in the reverse for Tyson. A lot of the credit for his victories has to be given to his team. Holyfield did exactly what he was told and kept Tyson unbalanced....His skill was not so much in need as his confidence (one had to be in on Mike and push on him....scary at the time!) and his ability to do what he was told.

[beez721]

Bowe was much better than ruddock in every department..

Ruddock was a good fighter, solid contender in a very deep heavy division at the time, but bowe was more skilled and the better fighter in general

pretty much agree altho I think Ruddock had bigger one punch power. I just didn't agree with the post saying bowe had a much better chin as he didn't face the powerful punchers ruddock faced. bowe's chin was obviously at least descent but im not sure it was any better or worse than ruddocks. the only guy to really bomb Ruddock out early was lewis and that was an absolute bomb on the chin that detonated on Ruddock that he never recovered from. plus I think Ruddock was past his best at that point anyway. not sure bowe would have taken that shot any better or worse.
back to bowe/lewis,,,,,, I feel bowe would have beaten lewis before manny steward got a hold of him. under manny he was more technically sound and set up his punches better. that lewis probably stops bowe