How would sonny liston do in today's division

[LacedUp]

Yeah ok that's me, your a real detective.

I'm sorry but I can't find any common ground either who tries to pass **** off as gold in light of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, even VIDEO evidence!

you are completely ******ed

[New England]

Forgive me for interjecting; but I'll take a stab at this.

Vitali would have the best chance of the two. The thing I like about Dr Ironfist is his heart and determination. Also, he's a dyed in the wool killer. You can see it written all over him. There is no quit in the man....despite that unfortunate episode with Chris Byrd. (Personally, I think that was a cultural thing at the time....or, he let his brain beat his heart.) Either way, a moot point if we're going to look at who he's become.

The thing I don't like about Vitali is the thing that would give Liston problems; that awkward-ass style of his. He moves like a piece of construction equipment. However, I feel that Liston's bodywork would wear him down and his jab would bust him up. Liston's jab was like a battering ram; harder than most heavy's right hands. Klitschko, despite his record, is not what I would call a knock-out puncher. He clubs people to death with his brute force. Wlad's got much more pop behind his shots than Vitali does. And that would be another weakness against Liston. Liston was beaten with billy clubs by cops and stayed on his feet. Pure determination, stubbornness, will, or just plain meaness kept him up. In his only loss before Clay, he fought 8 rounds with a broken jaw. Tough S.O.B. Vitali's size and strength would be to no avail, IMO. And his skin would betray him. Liston, I think, would stop Vitali on cuts late in the fight.

Wladimir is easier to predict....or guess, if I'm going to be fair. You can tell a lot more about Dr. Steelhammer by his losses than that one "No Mas" by Vitali. Wlad, if pressured significantly, whether physically or mentally, has the impending potential to crack. I do feel he would be psychologically intimidated by Sonny before the bell ever rang. This would either cause him to over exert himself as he did in the first Brewster fight, or cause an inward panic attack should Liston decide to go right after him. Either way, this fight's ending in a clean K.O., T.K.O. or K.T.F.O. Wlad was never even in the same zip code despite his excellent physical abilities. Boxing is 90% mental....and that is where Liston would have the edge over the younger Klitschko.

On the "reach" thing I read some of you posting. Reach does mean something if you have the timing to go with it....Liston did. Clay's arms were shorter by a hair; but his speed over the aging strike-buster was too much for the old man to overcome in '64. If you want to view Liston at his best, check out the first Cleveland Williams fight or his destruction of Zora Folley....the beating he gave Machen wasn't too bad either, even though he probably cheated with that same eye-burning crap he pulled on Clay in round 4 of fight one. He was a complicated dude, not really all bad, definitely not all good; but a fighter any heavyweight in any era should respect and fear.

rofl............


a cultural thing. he also beat lennox lewis, and the ref ruined his victory by stopping the fight over an inconsequential cut. wladimir was poisoned by sam peter. lamon brewster, too.

[K-DOGG]

rofl............


a cultural thing. he also beat lennox lewis, and the ref ruined his victory by stopping the fight over an inconsequential cut. wladimir was poisoned by sam peter. lamon brewster, too.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

[K-DOGG]

He would be UD'd by any decent HW and KO'd by any HW with a decent punch.

He would probably have been trained better today but as he was I can't think of any HW today off the top of my head he would be able to beat.

1. What decent heavyweights?

2. Liston was only stopped twice in his career, both times over the age of 36.

[Tommo1]

1. ANY HW that makes a headline would undoubtedly beat Liston, he's a terrible boxer.

2. Liston never fought decent opponents to get stopped. As soon as he did he was stopped!

[Tommo1]

You wanna see Liston type figure beat Wladimir Klitschko we already did you are right. His name was Ross Puritty, Wladimir was green and he gassed out against the experienced Puritty who was much like Liston. However Wladimir would NEVER lose to that calibre of opponent ever again, not since the 90's! Get real!

[K-DOGG]

You don't watch many old tapes, huh.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course; but it comes off as an uninformed or unresearched opinion. Ross Purity was tough and powerful; but comparatively unskilled. He was a football player that took up boxing.

Liston, on the other hand, was a boxer with power and more. He had skill, beat all ranking fighters of his day, which I suppose you would argue are "nothing" compared to today's heavyweights.

It never ceased to amaze me how newer fans, by and large, tend to discredit the fighters who proved themselves the best years before the present day. Liston was before my time; but I had to know why my predecessors lauded over Ali's victory over him. Why was this such a big deal? Why was it such an upset; because to me, at the time, Ali was the greatest fighter that ever lived. So, I looked at the old tapes, listened to the old-timers, and took note of the time period before Ali was world champ.

That's when I realized there was and is merit to what the people before myself had to say about who was great and why.

Likewise, I try to be fair concerning modern heavies. Both Klitschko's, I think, would have been very competitive in previous eras. In fact, I think history will be less kind to them simply because of the weakness of the era in which they are currently champions. If there were stiffer competition out there, someone who could challenge them besides each other, they would get more respect.

This is simply because, like Ali was deemed "great" due to his competition and WHO he faced and defeated, likewise, both Klitschkos will be judged on their lack of competition. You're only as good and your record is only as meritable as the names on it.

It's all well and good to make a blanket statement saying this fighter could or couldn't do this based on your opinion. But what is more impressive is if you can back your opinion up with data.

If not, ultimately, it just sounds like your talking out of your bunghole. I'm not saying you are; but an opinion, mine included, is a common thing. They're like bungholes....everybody has one.

[Tommo1]

Well that's just it isn't it. Wladimir's competition IS great and it is demonstratably better than what came well before.\

Wladimir's competition is exclusively HW, Muhammad's was a combination (roughly half) of CW and HW.

So from the get go Wladimir's record is 63-3 against Ali's 28-4 (HW record). Then if you analyse their records it also turns out Wlad's opponents have great ones. Unbeaten records, only few losses, high KOratios, heftier than any other champs opponents. Then ya compare their best wins.

Foreman, Lyle, Frazier, Norton, Liston, Bonavena, Terrell, Quarry.

Against Haye, Peter, Thompson, Chagaev, Rahman, McCline, Brewster, Byrd.

It seems Wlad's comp is pretty damn good really! I'd stack Wlad's up to whack out Ali's anyday in a punch out. Even big George would have trouble with some of Wlad's comp!

You alredy hit the nail on the head. Ali's/Liston's/any old timers resume looks good for only one reason... NAME RECOGNITION! The fame factory did it's job well!

[K-DOGG]

Well that's just it isn't it. Wladimir's competition IS great and it is demonstratably better than what came well before.\

Wladimir's competition is exclusively HW, Muhammad's was a combination (roughly half) of CW and HW.

So from the get go Wladimir's record is 63-3 against Ali's 28-4 (HW record). Then if you analyse their records it also turns out Wlad's opponents have great ones. Unbeaten records, only few losses, high KOratios, heftier than any other champs opponents. Then ya compare their best wins.

Foreman, Lyle, Frazier, Norton, Liston, Bonavena, Terrell, Quarry.

Against Haye, Peter, Thompson, Chagaev, Rahman, McCline, Brewster, Byrd.

It seems Wlad's comp is pretty damn good really! I'd stack Wlad's up to whack out Ali's anyday in a punch out. Even big George would have trouble with some of Wlad's comp!

You alredy hit the nail on the head. Ali's/Liston's/any old timers resume looks good for only one reason... NAME RECOGNITION! The fame factory did it's job well!

[StarshipTrooper]

We need some moderator intervention here. The troll alt needs to be broomed. HWeightblogger has no business in the History Section no matter what alt account he comes up with.

PS. The racist poster Slimshandy doesn't belong here either.

Poet