how would langford /dempsey gone

[Greatest1942]

I know he had his rib's broke in first series of fight's in new York and supposedly earned so little he rode the rails hobo style to get back to colorado. The fighter that broke his ribs was john lester Johnson and the book I got this info from does not identify his race.

Take everything Jack said with a pinch of salt mate...and dont rely on books where he was glorified like anything:-

George B. Underwood wrote on May 24, 1921, 12th part of his series of articles about Dempsey:

The other afternoon Jack Dempsey and I were sitting together in his room at his Airport home at Atlantic City and the talk turned to his match with John Lester Johnson.

"That Johnson affair, coming atop of what was paid me for my bouts with Anderson and Kennedy," remarked Jack, "surely did sicken me of New York and made me take it on the run for my home, sweet home in the West.

"You know I was promised $500 for the bout with Johnson. Instead I was handed $100, just one-fifth of what was coming to me. I went through ten terrific rounds with the big negro, having to fight with a broken rib from the second round on. You can imagine how I felt.

...

"After he broke my rib in the second I couldn't get wind to rush him.

[Rspen46]

I agree Louis, if Langford was as great a fighter as many claim, he would not have lost so many times to Will's, Mcvey & Jeanette, all 3 very good in their own right, but how good, we will never know for sure, Will's beat Langford nearly 10x so people for Sam, cry about being past his prime, well during those 10 losses to Will's, Langford was beating a lot of other good fighters, so I disagree he was past his prime, Will's was beaten by P. Uzcudun, again they cry Will's past prime, so what, he was ranked #1 & beating other good fighters, so not so past prime to me, Langford was short with long arms, Dempsey swarms him & Ko's him at some point fairly early, Langford's best weight's to me were lower than HW, at MW, I would take Bob Fitz to beat him, and he most likely would not have beaten, LW Gans if Gans did not travel ovenight & fight him the next day, sick, after having a rough fight the previous night, & Gans won the early rounds in that bought outboxing Langford until he tired, he would not have tired, if he had, plenty of rest & no grueling fight the night before, Dempey Ko's him, Tunney either Tko's him or decision's him I wished he had fought Uzcudun as he may have had a shot at winning, Sam great at lower weights but he can't beat the top 10 Hws of all time none of them, maybe not even the top 15 & he would have it tough against the top 20

[Rspen46]

And I loved A. Pryor, being from Cincinnati myself, otherwise I would not have gone to see all but 1 of his Pro fights in person & I would guess over 80% of his amateur bouts, & I knew almost his whole camp & got to speak with him many times over the years, so when I speak of Pryor, I speak to attempt to place a 1st hand account of where he should be placed in History, he did avoid the LW division, it did not avoid him, he could have beaten most of the LW's around, but who knows, they ran him to a weak JWW division instead, & yes he avoided even a weak hitting but excellent boxer in S. Mamby, how does he miss fighting the #1 contender in his own division, what makes him so great, he beat Arguello but cheated in the 1st fight, and it was clear Arguello had no will or heart left to win by the 2nd bout, and he was not a natural at JWW as Pryor was, he beat D. Johnson, #4 ranked contender, in a weak JWW division, big deal, he won the title from an aging champ ready to retire soon anyway, after that what did he do other than beat a bunch of nobodies, he hit hard with both hands, he could box very well, but he knew it, his whole camp knew it & so did every fight fan of his in Cincinnati, knew it, he couldnt take a good punch from a good puncher, that's why he avoided them all his whole career, Arguello was on his 4th move up in weight, he didnt have his normal power at that weight, Johnson put him down, but he had good not great power, Kameda had decent power & put him down, cervantes was over the hill & put him down, I would say A. Ganigan at LW would have had a great shot at Knocking him out, Duran would have destroyed him, J. Paul Koed him, Mancini, I think loses but he had a fair shot, Bramble, maybe, Davis Jr. No, Kenty, no, R. Gonzalez might have Koed him, J. Watt, I think had a shot to decision him, the list at LW goes on & on, Rosario definitely at LW Ko's him, no wonder he ran to JWW as fast as he could, his whole entire camp in the confidence of his camp, said so many times, over & over, they wanted & said so, they wanted as much cash out of him as they could get before he either imploded or got Knocked out, so nothing against Aaron Pryor, his people took advantage of him & let him destroy himself, he was the original Tyson, to let it his talent go to waste, he could have won many great bouts at LW, but he also would have lost a few, I even give Mamby a decent shot at a decision, but really what did pryor do other than build a fat record to be held so high in your eyes, who most likely never saw him once in person, & what do I have against Langford, nothing, it's the people that believe a guy barely 5-6 & say barely because I've seen many places discuss his height as much as 1-2 inches shorter then 5-6 and a half, now way a guy that height beats other all-time greats, yes good fighters in his own time, but not all-time greats, why because besides guys like Foreman, Ali, liston, & other greats, they were great bigger fighters, so most great smaller guys won't beat them,

[StarshipTrooper]

I agree Louis, if Langford was as great a fighter as many claim, he would not have lost so many times to Will's, Mcvey & Jeanette, all 3 very good in their own right, but how good, we will never know for sure, Will's beat Langford nearly 10x so people for Sam, cry about being past his prime, well during those 10 losses to Will's, Langford was beating a lot of other good fighters, so I disagree he was past his prime, Will's was beaten by P. Uzcudun, again they cry Will's past prime, so what, he was ranked #1 & beating other good fighters, so not so past prime to me, Langford was short with long arms, Dempsey swarms him & Ko's him at some point fairly early, Langford's best weight's to me were lower than HW, at MW, I would take Bob Fitz to beat him, and he most likely would not have beaten, LW Gans if Gans did not travel ovenight & fight him the next day, sick, after having a rough fight the previous night, & Gans won the early rounds in that bought outboxing Langford until he tired, he would not have tired, if he had, plenty of rest & no grueling fight the night before, Dempey Ko's him, Tunney either Tko's him or decision's him I wished he had fought Uzcudun as he may have had a shot at winning, Sam great at lower weights but he can't beat the top 10 Hws of all time none of them, maybe not even the top 15 & he would have it tough against the top 20

Ok, so all that means is that you're a ****** for whom concepts like career stages means nothing. Thank you for confirming to me that you have no credibility.

Poet

[Greatest1942]

And I loved A. Pryor, being from Cincinnati myself, otherwise I would not have gone to see all but 1 of his Pro fights in person & I would guess over 80% of his amateur bouts, & I knew almost his whole camp & got to speak with him many times over the years, so when I speak of Pryor, I speak to attempt to place a 1st hand account of where he should be placed in History, he did avoid the LW division, it did not avoid him, he could have beaten most of the LW's around, but who knows, they ran him to a weak JWW division instead, & yes he avoided even a weak hitting but excellent boxer in S. Mamby, how does he miss fighting the #1 contender in his own division, what makes him so great, he beat Arguello but cheated in the 1st fight, and it was clear Arguello had no will or heart left to win by the 2nd bout, and he was not a natural at JWW as Pryor was, he beat D. Johnson, #4 ranked contender, in a weak JWW division, big deal, he won the title from an aging champ ready to retire soon anyway, after that what did he do other than beat a bunch of nobodies, he hit hard with both hands, he could box very well, but he knew it, his whole camp knew it & so did every fight fan of his in Cincinnati, knew it, he couldnt take a good punch from a good puncher, that's why he avoided them all his whole career, Arguello was on his 4th move up in weight, he didnt have his normal power at that weight, Johnson put him down, but he had good not great power, Kameda had decent power & put him down, cervantes was over the hill & put him down, I would say A. Ganigan at LW would have had a great shot at Knocking him out, Duran would have destroyed him, J. Paul Koed him, Mancini, I think loses but he had a fair shot, Bramble, maybe, Davis Jr. No, Kenty, no, R. Gonzalez might have Koed him, J. Watt, I think had a shot to decision him, the list at LW goes on & on, Rosario definitely at LW Ko's him, no wonder he ran to JWW as fast as he could, his whole entire camp in the confidence of his camp, said so many times, over & over, they wanted & said so, they wanted as much cash out of him as they could get before he either imploded or got Knocked out, so nothing against Aaron Pryor, his people took advantage of him & let him destroy himself, he was the original Tyson, to let it his talent go to waste, he could have won many great bouts at LW, but he also would have lost a few, I even give Mamby a decent shot at a decision, but really what did pryor do other than build a fat record to be held so high in your eyes, who most likely never saw him once in person, & what do I have against Langford, nothing, it's the people that believe a guy barely 5-6 & say barely because I've seen many places discuss his height as much as 1-2 inches shorter then 5-6 and a half, now way a guy that height beats other all-time greats, yes good fighters in his own time, but not all-time greats, why because besides guys like Foreman, Ali, liston, & other greats, they were great bigger fighters, so most great smaller guys won't beat them,

And Ali was beaten by Leon Spinks...
Tyson later on by almost everyone...


They too were not greats right...
of course they were guilty of losing in *** end of their careers..

Langford was half blind by the time, he was fighting willis, by the way I wont go into a debate with you, and I have talked about Langford a lot, as young boxing fans seem too know so little about him...but I am done here.

[StarshipTrooper]

And Ali was beaten by Leon Spinks...
Tyson later on by almost everyone...


They too were not greats right...
of course they were guilty of losing in *** end of their careers..

Langford was half blind by the time, he was fighting willis, by the way I wont go into a debate with you, and I have talked about Langford a lot, as young boxing fans seem too know so little about him...but I am done here.

The dude said the same thing over on OOTP Development Forums a couple of weeks ago and got the same answer.....apparently it didn't stick >>>>>

"Assume they were rated when considered at their "prime" - the peak of their abilities in that division.

Langford and Wills first tangled in 1914. Langford was 31, with 116 bouts under his belt. Wills by contrast was 25, with 14 bouts under his belt.

Maybe why their head-to-heads do not directly relate to ratings."

And

"Langford was also fighting blind in one eye for the majority of their fights and was still just a blown up middleweight, while Wills was a legitimate HW. Langford was also drinking more and frequently went into fights in less than top condition as he reached the later years of his career.

Matched in their primes Langford was the better fighter, even fighting up in weight, though it is close. Of the 4 I would think McVea might actually be overrated slightly. He did fare well against a smaller Langford when he could keep him at bay, but often wilted in their fights when Langford was able to work on the inside. I would put McVea at 11 with Wills and leave Langford and Jeannette as is."

[Greatest1942]

The dude said the same thing over on OOTP Development Forums a couple of weeks ago and got the same answer.....apparently it didn't stick >>>>>

"Assume they were rated when considered at their "prime" - the peak of their abilities in that division.

Langford and Wills first tangled in 1914. Langford was 31, with 116 bouts under his belt. Wills by contrast was 25, with 14 bouts under his belt.

Maybe why their head-to-heads do not directly relate to ratings."

And

"Langford was also fighting blind in one eye for the majority of their fights and was still just a blown up middleweight, while Wills was a legitimate HW. Langford was also drinking more and frequently went into fights in less than top condition as he reached the later years of his career.

Matched in their primes Langford was the better fighter, even fighting up in weight, though it is close. Of the 4 I would think McVea might actually be overrated slightly. He did fare well against a smaller Langford when he could keep him at bay, but often wilted in their fights when Langford was able to work on the inside. I would put McVea at 11 with Wills and leave Langford and Jeannette as is."

Lets forget him..how are you doing Poet, nice to see you here still.

[Anthony342]

The dude said the same thing over on OOTP Development Forums a couple of weeks ago and got the same answer.....apparently it didn't stick >>>>>

"Assume they were rated when considered at their "prime" - the peak of their abilities in that division.

Langford and Wills first tangled in 1914. Langford was 31, with 116 bouts under his belt. Wills by contrast was 25, with 14 bouts under his belt.

Maybe why their head-to-heads do not directly relate to ratings."

And

"Langford was also fighting blind in one eye for the majority of their fights and was still just a blown up middleweight, while Wills was a legitimate HW. Langford was also drinking more and frequently went into fights in less than top condition as he reached the later years of his career.

Matched in their primes Langford was the better fighter, even fighting up in weight, though it is close. Of the 4 I would think McVea might actually be overrated slightly. He did fare well against a smaller Langford when he could keep him at bay, but often wilted in their fights when Langford was able to work on the inside. I would put McVea at 11 with Wills and leave Langford and Jeannette as is."

So then Langford Wills would essentially be something like Ali-Holmes?

[StarshipTrooper]

Lets forget him..how are you doing Poet, nice to see you here still.

I'm doing pretty good, not posting as much these days but then again the whole site seems pretty slow the past few months.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

So then Langford Wills would essentially be something like Ali-Holmes?

Something like that. I couldn't imagine fighting half blind any more than I could imagine fighting with Parkinson.

Poet