Was Sugar ray Robinson in his prime in the Fullmer and basillio fights?

[greynotsoold]

I've been told by guys that trained at the old Main St Gym in LA that, as late as 1971, 72, Robinson was there jumping rope in sweat suit and sparring rounds with contenders like Big Red Lopez.

[Bolo Punch]

Try explaing his prime time to Basillo, Harrington, Fullmer and the rest! I talked about Sugar with Basillo many years ago I knew Stan Harrington personally when I had my active years training and met him through Gaspar Ortega because they fought a number of times!

Yes, you may have talked to fighters who fought Robinson after 1952, but those people never fought the pre-'52 version, meaning they couldn't possibly know if he was better, worse or just as good as he was back in the day compared to when he fought them. It really does make no sense for this particular argument.

Since you're so set on mentioning facts, why don't we compare his record before retiring in '52 to his record after his '55 comeback.


Record from 1940-1952

131-3-2

Record over top fighters from 1940-1952

Sammy Agnott 3-0
Fritzie Zivic 2-0
Jake LaMotta 5-1
Henry Armstrong 1-0
Kid Gavilan 1-0
Bobo Olsen 2-0
Randy Turpin 1-1
Rocky Graziano 1-0
Joey Maxim 0-1

Record from 1955-1965

42-16-4

Record over top fighters from 1955-1965

Bobo Olsen 2-0
Gene Fullmer 1-2-1
Carmen Basilio 1-1
Paul Pender 0-2
Joey Giardello 0-1
Stan Harrington 0-2
Joey Archer 0-1


I don't know what more I can say or any other way I can put it. It's simply clear as day that Robinson was not as good as he once was after coming out of retirement. He's got some very nice wins over top competition, but he suffered losses over guys that it's safe to assume he wouldn't have done before his initial retirement (no disrespect to those guys at all - Robinson was still great, just not as great).

His record post-1955 against top fighters is 4-8-1. Doesn't make for as good reading as his 16-3 record against top opposition before his first retirement.

I'm not holding out on any hope that you'll change your stubborn viewpoint on this subject, but at least I've shared my personal opinion with you and any other readers of this thread.

[The Iron Man]

I think once a thread is made only Ray should reply then the thread should be closed. Because he is the only one that knows Boxing as he held pads for so many great boxers.

[Ray Corso]

Once again the muti-meaning of the word GREAT!! He was great but not AS great as in October?? His prime was better "rare" as opposed to medium??

"THE" iron man do you have a name or does everyone call you "ironhead".

If your ever anywhere near me let me know I'll show you my "pad techniques" on your "ironhead" hahaha!! Iron Man ofcourse you are!!!
Ray.

[Barn]

Ray I said something insulting earlier but edited it out to remain civil. However you replied in a condescending nature again! At least try to be sensible, do you ever worry that you're not keeping it real?

[Barn]

Try explaing his prime time to Basillo, Harrington, Fullmer and the rest! I talked about Sugar with Basillo many years ago I knew Stan Harrington personally when I had my active years training and met him through Gaspar Ortega because they fought a number of times! You see I talked to people who fought Sugar at that time and you didn't! So please tell me how your opinion of his "prime" effected Bassillo one of the greatest fighters of all time?
Please do!!! You know fellows you kids are like talking to the wall, you think I'm talking down to you but you start the degradfing **** first by voicing an opinion based on ****! Best to you pacquiaoskid or what ever your called! Don't you have a name? Nite tired of talking to kidswho think they know the game!!!

The amount of times you've mentioned you know Sam Harrington in your time here is actually hilarious.

[The Iron Man]

Once again the muti-meaning of the word GREAT!! He was great but not AS great as in October?? His prime was better "rare" as opposed to medium??

"THE" iron man do you have a name or does everyone call you "ironhead".

If your ever anywhere near me let me know I'll show you my "pad techniques" on your "ironhead" hahaha!! Iron Man ofcourse you are!!!
Ray.

Much appreciated mate, I'll definitely give you a call if I'm anywhere near you. It would be an honour to work the pads with the guy who invented it

EDIT: That's not my real name, I actually picked a username different to my real name because I'm a bit of a maverick.

[- Ram Raid -]

What about Ray's own opinion of his prime

When Ray Corso is venting his spleen, his opinion supersedes Sugar Ray's.

Don't worry though. He'll eventually calm down and return to being a valued member of the forums.

. . . . you just have to be patient.

[AntonTheMeh]

Prime ray vs cliff beckett in 1946


vs georgie abrams in 1947



vs sammy angott in 1946

[rightsideup]

thanks for sharing. Ray was the uncrowned ww champ and should have got a shot earlier than he did.