Was Sonny Liston an ATG?

[KO'er]

IN FAVOUR OF HIM BEING AN ATG: Up to when he lost to Cassius Clay/Ali, he was the most dominant heavyweight around. There was talk about him being the greatest heavyweight of all time, even Joe Louis said he though so.

After he got released from jail in 1958, he went on a 19 fight winning streak, including 15 ko's. He cleared out the division before his title shot with Patterson. He KO'd Cleveland Williams twice plus Zora Folley. He then beat Patterson twice, 2 first round KO's.

AGAINST HIM BEING AN ATG: He lost twice to Clay/Ali. If you were to have that down as him not being an ATG.

I feel that he is an ATG. I reckon if it were not for Ali, Liston would have dominated up to around 1967/68, when Frazier arrived. I also reckon Liston would have beat Marciano. Liston was 215lbs, 84 inch reach, 15 inch fists, immensebly powerful, a jab that could put holes in walls. The Rock never faced anything similar.

What do you guys think?

[dan_cov]

He fought in B&W so he must be but on a serious note no he isn't not IMO anyway.

If experts are saying Wladimir isn't and Vitali is noway near then Liston is miles away.

[MartinC]

He was the undisputed champion that is a good start.

[dan_cov]

Why is he an ATG? Because he fought Ali?

The guy has two decent wins over Floyd Patterson and a load of K.Os against guys with heavily padded records, fringe contenders at best.

He isn't an ATG in my book. Exciting fighter, a decent HW but that is where the line is drawn.

[KO'er]

"Guys with heavily padded records." Those were the top 10 guys.

The guy was utterly dominated before Ali came around.

[Ray Corso]

I don't consider Liston as an ATG but then again I have very few ATG's on my imaginary list! I don't use the word great like so many fans do on here! Sonny had a solid beginning as far as the basics are concerned. He had a very educated jab and long reach with power! His right hand and left hook were far above average in technique and his method to winning bouts was inline with his skills!! He fought and defeated good opposition but Ali was a different set of problems that no one in that era was ready for in the heavyweight division. To me Liston was a fighter who could compete at a high level in any era and do well!

technically speaking Liston has better form and a better style than Wlad and other than the difference in height has better tools & skills! He also had alot of the defficiencies the Wlad has too! Both are not good inside and neither pays alot of attention to the body! Both are some what questionable once their pressured and hit too!! Ofcourse if their offense is enough to win then their in good but when you face the best in these fantasy match ups you need to be more well rounded and the addition of a huge heart is a must!
I like Sonny, he had it tuff throughout his life and tried to make it right. A soft spoken guy who prefered to be left alone. He had it tuff!! Ray.

[Andyland]

Sonny Liston

Nice post Ray.

If Sonny was an ATG, he would have been much more competitive against
Ali. Although Ali was a much different fighter that anyone Sonny had ever
fought, Sonny looked lost in the first fight and down right pathetic in
The 2nd.

[dan_cov]

"Guys with heavily padded records." Those were the top 10 guys.

The guy was utterly dominated before Ali came around.

He didn't dominate anything he beat a few barely top 10 guys and Floyd Patterson twice.
Why didn't he fight Johansson, Machen, De John? among others.

How can you dominate a division when you spend 6-8 years fighting nobodies?

[Andyland]

SoNY Liston

He did fight Machen and won but it was a major snooze fest !!

[AntonTheMeh]

i think as a heavy he definitely is, as a p4p, i'm not as sure.