How do manny n mayweather do against the greats?

[Bolo Punch]

The only issue I have is this. Leonard's chin was incredible, and even if he somehow got hurt early, his will was unbreakable and would prevent anything bad happening.

The psycho, still prime Duran caught him with a perfect left hook, staggered him, and hurt him a couple of other times to the body and with rights, but even a nutty Duran couldn't take him out despite being a smarter, more versatile offensive finisher than Pac. Don't think Pac would even get close to hurting him. Hearns couldn't really hurt him much either, and if Hearns couldn't, Pac wouldn't.

I agree, I just put that in as a side note, really. Even though it probably wouldn't happen, you can never rule Manny out completely, as long as he has the puncher's chance.

[wmute]

Hagler, Hearns and Leonard all beat Floyd.
With Benitez and Duran it is good fights.

Manny gets wiped out by all 6 fighters mentioned above.

[BennyST]

Mayweather has the speed, reflexes, accuracy and cunning to give any of those fighters more than a few problems. But whilst his phenomenal skills have proved more than enough to win titles at several weights he has yet to face similarly gifted fighters capable of sustaining ferocious pressure from the first minute to the last.

Of course, styles make fights. But I can't help looking back to the Castillo and ODH bouts and thinking he'd need to raise his game a lot higher to go from causing problems to winning.

In his prime Manny's weakness was his defence. I've no doubt he could catch and hurt any of the four. And with such power there's always the possibility of an early KO. But is it realistic to think someone so wide open can continue taking shots from certified heavy hitters past round four or five? I'm not sure.

It's not that Manny and Floyd are completely outclassed. Far from it. I just think the former gives away too many easy hits whilst the latter has never been put under the same kind of pressure he exerts on others.

A lot of people say this, and I simply cannot figure out where this presumption comes from. This isn't a chinny Cotto, an utterly defenceless Diaz, a slow plodding, shot Margarito. Pac, at 135-147, has not shown the ability to be able to hurt guys with greater defense, chins, power, size and overall skill than anyone he's fought.

He's not KOing, or likely even hurting any of them. Pac, despite some weird myth to the contrary, doesn't have amazing one punch power and against the better skilled, reasonable defense and chin guys he's fought, he hasn't been able to KO them. If he's struggling with that, he's not hurting a prime Duran, Leonard, Benitez, Hagler or Hearns.

The only guy that has really shown something over his career that would likely get him hurt or knocked out in these fights is Pac himself.

[BennyST]

I agree, I just put that in as a side note, really. Even though it probably wouldn't happen, you can never rule Manny out completely, as long as he has the puncher's chance.

Yes, I know what you mean, but I don't think he has even a punchers chance. Someone like Hearns has a punchers chance. Manny has always been a wear em down type fighter more than anything. He's got a speed, offensive chance...not a punchers chance.

Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Oscar, Cotto, etc....ie the best he's fought, have all shown decent chins more or less, though Cotto and Barrera has been knocked out, dropped, before Pac wore them down. However, Pac wore them down, despite landing a million flush hard lefts cleanly. Barrera was cleaned up by Jones, dropped by a few other guys. Oscar knocked down many times, knocked out once before, Hatton started showing a bad, easy to crack chin after getting KOd....Morales was really the only guy that had a Leonard/Duran/Hagler like chin, and while at the end of his prime in his last good fight, Pac simply couldn't hurt him. he really wasn't a punchers chance kind of power fighter and I can't see that type of thing remotely with any of these who showed as great, or greater assets in that department than all of the above while in their prime.

[Bolo Punch]

A lot of people say this, and I simply cannot figure out where this presumption comes from. This isn't a chinny Cotto, an utterly defenceless Diaz, a slow plodding, shot Margarito. Pac, at 135-147, has not shown the ability to be able to hurt guys with greater defense, chins, power, size and overall skill than anyone he's fought.

He's not KOing, or likely even hurting any of them. Pac, despite some weird myth to the contrary, doesn't have amazing one punch power and against the better skilled, reasonable defense and chin guys he's fought, he hasn't been able to KO them. If he's struggling with that, he's not hurting a prime Duran, Leonard, Benitez, Hagler or Hearns.

The only guy that has really shown something over his career that would likely get him hurt or knocked out in these fights is Pac himself.

I disagree. Cotto wasn't exactly 'chinny', as you describe him. Correct me if I'm wrong but the last time he was legitimately knocked down prior to the Pacquiao fight was the Torres fight in 2005 at 140lbs, was it not? I know he technically suffered two in the first Margarito fight, but they were knees. He stood up to some big shots that Margarito threw, possibly with the added extra of plaster or Paris, or a similar substance, too. Cotto proved his chin to be good that night; it was his overall resistance to an accumulation of shots that ended up being his downfall.

The only conclusion I can come to with that evidence is that Pacquiao's two knockdowns of Cotto (one that had him genuinely rocked) should be enough proof that he still had the power to hurt people at 147. (He also knocked Hatton out cold at 140)

[The Surgeon]

Hearns slaughters them both. Leonard and Hagler beat them down and Duran is 50/50 with Mayweather. Beats Manny up and stops him late.

If you include Benitez, I think he drops a decision to Floyd but decisions Manny.

Floyds tenacity and versatility serve him well at times. Mannys style doesnt serve him well at all against bigger men of equal physical gifts and superior smarts.

I think Hearns is easily the worst match for either. Cant see either having any real success against such a rangy, speedy power puncher who can keep them out of their range and inside his own. Horrible match.


Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

I agree all the way except while I can see an argument for Floyd over Duran I could see Duran running him outta the ring

[Bolo Punch]

Yes, I know what you mean, but I don't think he has even a punchers chance. Someone like Hearns has a punchers chance. Manny has always been a wear em down type fighter more than anything. He's got a speed, offensive chance...not a punchers chance.

Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Oscar, Cotto, etc....ie the best he's fought, have all shown decent chins more or less, though Cotto and Barrera has been knocked out, dropped, before Pac wore them down. However, Pac wore them down, despite landing a million flush hard lefts cleanly. Barrera was cleaned up by Jones, dropped by a few other guys. Oscar knocked down many times, knocked out once before, Hatton started showing a bad, easy to crack chin after getting KOd....Morales was really the only guy that had a Leonard/Duran/Hagler like chin, and while at the end of his prime in his last good fight, Pac simply couldn't hurt him. he really wasn't a punchers chance kind of power fighter and I can't see that type of thing remotely with any of these who showed as great, or greater assets in that department than all of the above while in their prime.

Damn, you got there a minute before me which more or less renders my post useless now!

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I still think it should be considered. While Manny may not have been a one-punch KO guy a whole lot, I think he could still hurt you enough with one shot to change a fight or at least take something out of you to make it competitive.

As I said, though, Leonard outboxes him if Pacquiao can't truly hurt him.

[BennyST]

the problem is we are comparing them too hagler, hearns , leonard and duran when there best weights may be junior lightweight.

That's true, though in today's weigh in era, Duran would certainly have been a featherweight and jr lightweight champion, if not lower. Pac was weighing in as a welterweight fighting at featherweight. Very different times. Pac is naturally much bigger than most think of him as.

The others were naturally bigger, started higher, went higher, but Duran was exactly the same size and started down at bantamweight. Pac wouldn't have fought at many of the weights in the bygone weights era.

[BennyST]

Damn, you got there a minute before me which more or less renders my post useless now!

I definitely see where you're coming from, but I still think it should be considered. While Manny may not have been a one-punch KO guy a whole lot, I think he could still hurt you enough with one shot to change a fight or at least take something out of you to make it competitive.

As I said, though, Leonard outboxes him if Pacquiao can't truly hurt him.

Yeah, I do get it, but I just don't see it happening at all. As you said, Cotto was hard to drop or knock out, despite being pretty easily hurt.

But, with Leonard; bigger, faster, more skilled, incredible chin and will, excellent power...Pac would end up walking into stuff all night. I really can't see it going any other way.

A lot of people hold a different view though, so I may be missing something that others see....

[SCtrojansbaby]

I think Pacquiao would give Leonard and Duran a lot of trouble. I think he beats Duran he would get the better of Duran in most exchanges because of his speed and I trust his chin a bit more.

Hagler has no business being mentioned in this thread.