Who Thinks Butterfly Overrates every single oppnent Ali Has Fought.

[Soliloquy]

All of Carnera's fights were fixed anyway.

[hellfire508]

Why would you only consider Langford's Heavyweight career, though, when the original statement made was "any boxer ever and especially when Langford's prime weight was more around what a Middleweight or Super Middleweight today weighs (when Langford was a Heavyweight in weight, he was basically fat and had gone blind)?

Langford's Heavyweight resume is impressive, but if one was to go the complete opposite direction of you and not included the Heavyweights on Langford's resume, even then it still looks more impressive to me than does Ali's...

- Joe Gans (some consider him the greatest Lightweight of all-times)
- Barbados Joe Walcott (a top five Welterweight)
- Stanley Ketchel (top five Middleweight)
- Tiger Flowers (possible top ten Middleweight)
- Jack Blackburn (top fifteen Lightweight)
- Jack O'Brien (top fifteen Light Heavyweight)
- Kid Norfolk (top twenty Light Heavyweight)
- Dixie Kid, Dave Holly, etc.

And unlike Ali vs. Holmes, you can find sources claiming Langford got the best of each of these guys when they stepped into the ring with him.

Oh, and in a span of just less than two years, Sammy Angott fought Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, Ike Williams, Beau Jack and Bob Montgomery...Ali and his "4 top 10 heavyweights" that he fought throughout his whole career doesn't even come close to that quality of opposition. That's three all-time top five/ten p4p fighters that Angott shared the ring with in that short time span, as well as a top five Lightweight in Ike Williams, and two other HOF Lightweights that made The Ring's all-time top ten at 135.

Where did it say "Any fighter". I never saw that. There a plenty of boxers who had better resumes than Ali, but none at heavyweight.

[hellfire508]

0wned.

Ali was a great fighter, but the media really overrated him..
If he ever fought Louis, it would be soo one sided IMO.
I think Louis exposes him of his many flaws and takes him out in the early to mid rounds...

Do you really think Carnera would knock out Frazier in the first round though, Yogi?

Yessss, "Owned". Well done mate.

See my above post.

And please elaborate on your "would expose his many flaws" argument. It comes up a lot but is never really explained. Or if you will - counter my argument in the Louis vs Ali thread.

Ali TKO late.

[Yogi]

Muhammad Ali has the best resume of any boxer ever

Hellfire, this statement by Marvelous started the latest conversation in this thread and was the one that I alluded to in my other post there.

[Yogi]

Do you think Primo Carnera was a good fighter, though?

He was far from being the most talented Heavyweight of all-time, but he was still good enough to win the linear Heavyweight championship in a fight that I saw as being on the up-and-up (i.e. I disagree with Soliloquy's claim that all of his fights were fixed).

Heart, stamina, left jab, right uppercut (lesser extent, right cross from distance), physical strength, inside skills, fairly decent hand & foot speed for a big guy, etc...Just some of the attributes Carnera good count on in the ring depending on the opponent.

Of course he wasn't without his weaknesses either, like his less than stellar chin, off balance/clumsiness at times with the footwork and left hooks, etc.

[hellfire508]

Hellfire, this statement by Marvelous started the latest conversation in this thread and was the one that I alluded to in my other post there.

A silly statement. There are a handfull of fighters who have better - not just Langford.

[butterfly1964]

oooo, I thought so...

Do you think Primo Carnera was a good fighter, though?
I don't know much about him, lol...

What I'm trying to figure out is....Butterfly said nobody but Ali could have beaten Liston.....he said Louis even can't...

Funniest thing I've ever hard....

please. sonny liston is lightyears ahead of louis. liston is bigger, stronger, and faster than louis. louis would be blown out in about 2 rounds. louis has a glass chin, so certainly he has no chance against liston's punching power.

[supaduck]

Hm, I think the reason you overrate Sonny so much is to make Ali look even better for beating him

[butterfly1964]

Hm, I think the reason you overrate Sonny so much is to make Ali look even better for beating him

watch liston inm his prime and you'll knoe what i'm talking about. louis himself said that liston was better than him.

[hellfire508]

Louis would TKO Liston IMO.