Pick a fighter to beat me ...

[SCtrojansbaby]

or conceed and pick someone new.
My pick is the Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight. Can you name any fighter from any night on their given career who you would feel confident enough in to bet your house on him beating this Ali?

Wlad with the right strategy could win. If he takes the center of the ring throw nothing but jabs and makes Ali come to him then does the patent clinch lean him back against the ropes he could wear Ali out and and win a decision

[Scott9945]

In the Ali fight, Williams did at least throw punches.

Just last week I heard Ali say he was surprised by Williams' power in the 1970 movie "A.K.A. Cassius Clay". That is a fun movie to watch if you liked Ali when he was young and brash. He has several great arguments with Cus D'Amato about how he would have done against Louis, Patterson, etc.

[Capaedia]

Heres an interesting one....

Niccolino Locche from the first Cervantes fight where all three judges gave him every round of the 15 rounds.

I think Pryor beats him up.

Now I think Pryor is very overrated as an H2H fighter, but the problem with this matchup is that Locche has no power to discourage him.

So while he may humiliate Pryor for the first half of the fight, the second is all Pryor's. Possibly by stoppage.

I

[Sugarj]

Just last week I heard Ali say he was surprised by Williams' power in the 1970 movie "A.K.A. Cassius Clay". That is a fun movie to watch if you liked Ali when he was young and brash. He has several great arguments with Cus D'Amato about how he would have done against Louis, Patterson, etc.

I love that documentary. Ali's comments about Schmelling's no show in fight 2 with Louis are priceless!

I'm glad Cus D'Amato had such a role. I like Cus in that documentary.....

[Boxing Bob]

Just last week I heard Ali say he was surprised by Williams' power in the 1970 movie "A.K.A. Cassius Clay". That is a fun movie to watch if you liked Ali when he was young and brash. He has several great arguments with Cus D'Amato about how he would have done against Louis, Patterson, etc.

I loved it when Ali told Cus, "All of a sudden the day I'm facing Louis, I'm gonna forget to use movement and my jab?" Probably not exactly what he said but close

[SBleeder]

or conceed and pick someone new.
My pick is the Ali from the Cleveland Williams fight. Can you name any fighter from any night on their given career who you would feel confident enough in to bet your house on him beating this Ali?

Heck no.

I'd give Louis a great chance, but would never bet the house.

Nobody else touches him.

[SBleeder]

Heres an interesting one....

Niccolino Locche from the first Cervantes fight where all three judges gave him every round of the 15 rounds.

Lightweights Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, and Roberto Duran would all be able to deal with a slight weight disadvantage and beat Locche by decision, much as it pains me to say it (Locche's my 2nd favorite of all time).

Disagree with Capaedia- I think Pryor's hailstorm of punches will mainly find nothing but air.

[SBleeder]

Alexis Arguello from the rematch with Escalara.

[BennyST]

Lightweights Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, and Roberto Duran would all be able to deal with a slight weight disadvantage and beat Locche by decision, much as it pains me to say it (Locche's my 2nd favorite of all time).

Disagree with Capaedia- I think Pryor's hailstorm of punches will mainly find nothing but air.

Yeah, I think the great PRican Ortiz does too. Well, he more or less did.

I do remember though that there were a few that beat him around that stage. Peppermint Fraser, Ismael Laguna, and some other guy who I can't remember beat him around then.

Alexis Arguello from the rematch with Escalara.

Vilomar Fernandez. Beat him, pretty clearly, only two fights before. Arguello is one of those guys that has real trouble with a certain style of fighter though.

[fight_professor]

Lets face it Ali looked absolutely brilliant in beating that faded version of Williams. He might not have looked quite so impressive against a more 'live' opponent.......but lets be honest there were times when William's handspeed looked quick that night, and he really did catch air all the time. Ali's reflexes were phenominal. The fight almost looked like one of those choreographed martial arts movies.........the combination work and accuracy were stunning.

Could anyone in history have beaten Ali over 12 or 15 rounds the way he looked that night?

I honestly don't think there is anyone I'd put money on. Stylistically the most trouble Ali had was with Ken Norton.......but you'd have to say that if 1973 Ali can split decision him, then 1966 Ali would be more decisive.

In 1971 Frazier not only gave Ali terrible stylistic problems, but he was also probably a shade fitter too. But the decision win for Frazier was very close and I'd have to favour a more prime version of Ali to turn the decision in his own favour.

Prime Larry Holmes would give Ali some serious problems. But I'd still shade Ali on his slight advantages in hand and footspeed.

Lennox Lewis had the tools to beat Ali, but not the distance workrate.

I've always felt that 1988 Mike Tyson would give Ali a good scare for 5 rounds or so. Similar dimensions to Frazier; however for the early rounds his pace and pressure were more than that of Joe, his head movement was pretty good too. This coupled with his obvious advantages in handspeed and wider punch arsenal could make things very tricky for even prime Ali.

The problem is that Tyson.....whilst still effective after round 6 of a fight did tend to suffer from a drop in pace. Usually his points advantage and the punishment suffered by the opponent up to this point was enough to see Tyson though to several of his points victories. But Ali near as dammit always finished fights well....so I'd still favour Ali.

Ha ha, three prime Tyson clones; one exchanged every 5 rounds might pull off a win over 15 rounds!!!!

The day will come when a heavyweight will arrive that honestly would have beaten prime Ali head to head. The way sizes are going, there will be a day when it would be ridiculous to suggest that a 6ft 3 212Lb Ali could have beaten someone so big. The same way that it would be ridiculous to suggest that prime Sugar Ray Robinson would beat every light heavyweight in history! There has to be a point where size advantages and good talent offsets a superior talent with inferior physical advantages.

30 years for now we might have Valuev sized heavyweights who can move well, punch quickly and hit with ludicrous power. Back in Joe Louis's day it would not have been concieved that heavyweights with the dimensions of Lennox Lewis or Wlad Klitschko could move, or have reflexes or handspeed of their levels.

But I don't think we'll ever see a heavyweight who was better outside the ring than Ali.

Excellent post. The only hybrid option is Mike Tyson (88) with Joe Frazier's heart and mental strength.

In Reality, Ali at his best ala CW fight clowns any HW ever.