Where Does Mike Tyson Rank As An ATG?

[likeamulekick]

Same stupidity over and over again.

Its really not worth responding to but I'll do it anyway.

Everyone matures as a fighter differently ... B-Hop and Marquez are extreme examples just like Tyson is an extreme example of someone who peaked early and then fell off. You won't find many if any great fighters being as dominant at the later stages of their careers, just like you won't find many who came like a blaze and then left. Schmeling was definitely PAST his prime by the time he fought Louis while Louis was in his prime and Louis lost and was knocked out by a modern day crusierweight.

Tyson himself stated that he was considering retirement after Spinks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zQe...rement&f=false

I don't state things without evidence nor do I claim that glass jawed Joe Louis who has been dropped more than any heavyweight champion ever since Wladimir Klitschko had a stone chin. Billy Conn had Joe Louis on deer legs, Wlacott dropped him, an older Schmeling floored him, Braddock knocked him down etc. Any decent puncher sent him to the canvas. A fat slob Tony Galento who is worst than even Kevin McBride, put Louis down while Louis was in his prime. That isn't evidence of a good chin.

The Tyson at age 24 wasn't training the same and had immense personal problems outside the ring. His decline could be seen as early as the Bruno fight. After he fired Rooney he became primarily a head hunter and stopped moving his head. There was a clear diminishing of skill.

thats why tyson isnt as great as louis, ali etc because those guys dint need a kevin rooney to keep them great, tyson was not a true champion like those guys

[TysonBomb]

H2H he is a monster and what he was able to do in a short amount of time is amazing too.

From '85-'90 he was spectacular but yeah it is true that he didn't have a lengthy reign .... but if Marciano is considered a top 5 heavyweight overall according to many then so should Tyson. Marciano was only active 7 years.

Career-wise of course he falls short ... he simply wasn't dominant long enough to have a better career than Joe Louis. Tyson's boxing career after prison was just a circus freak show. He came out and won two belts and looked decent but after the Holyfield debacle it was just a frenzy. Even up to the Ruddock fights his career was redeemable and Tyson was fixated on the taking back his titles.

But the point is that he is the most gifted heavyweight ever and was on track to becoming the greatest heavyweight ever. He would've smashed Marciano's 49-0 record, broken Joe Louis's record of 25 title defenses, and he would've built a legacy greater than Ali's by dominating the extremely deep heavyweight era of the 90s.

[JAB5239]

But the point is that he is the most gifted heavyweight ever and was on track to becoming the greatest heavyweight ever. He would've smashed Marciano's 49-0 record, broken Joe Louis's record of 25 title defenses, and he would've built a legacy greater than Ali's by dominating the extremely deep heavyweight era of the 90s.

With all due respect, I don't understand how you can say this. The truth is he didn't have the discipline or mental fortitude to accomplish these things and thats why he didn't.

[TysonBomb]

He had it .... Just didnt sustain it

No one even came close to beating him while he exploded to the top of the division ... He was operating on a level at a rate never seen before ... Literally like a machine


No one ascended quite like.that before

[Daddy T]

H2H tyson gives anybody a hard time and beats most that would be ranked above him longevity wise. Unfortunately he lacked the mental where-with-all to cope with the immense success he got in such a short period of time and at such a young age. If Cus had lived, if he'd suck with Rooney if he hadn't been such easy prey for the likes of King and Givens then he could have been the GOAT imo. But the thing is that's an awful lot of 'ifs' as it stands he's A great that could have been THE great IF

[likeamulekick]

H2H tyson gives anybody a hard time and beats most that would be ranked above him longevity wise. Unfortunately he lacked the mental where-with-all to cope with the immense success he got in such a short period of time and at such a young age. If Cus had lived, if he'd suck with Rooney if he hadn't been such easy prey for the likes of King and Givens then he could have been the GOAT imo. But the thing is that's an awful lot of 'ifs' as it stands he's A great that could have been THE great IF

bingo. tyson wasnt as strong mentally as other greats but when he had cus, rooney and when he just had pure tunnel vision, he could defintly compete mentally with them in a single fight. theres so many different versions of tyson but a prime one far exceeds the others

[JAB5239]

He had it .... Just didnt sustain it

No one even came close to beating him while he exploded to the top of the division ... He was operating on a level at a rate never seen before ... Literally like a machine


No one ascended quite like.that before

Actually Louis did before the first Schmeling fight. Difference is Louis went in to continued greatness after his loss.

[SBleeder]

He had it .... Just didnt sustain it

No one even came close to beating him while he exploded to the top of the division ... He was operating on a level at a rate never seen before ... Literally like a machine


No one ascended quite like.that before

I can name at least 20 fighters off the top of my head who had more meteoric rises than Tyson, and Louis is one of them.

Quick Tillis came very, very close to beating, or at least drawing with Tyson. Some ringside observers thought Tillis had gotten jobbed. Pinklon Thomas, had he been able to survive another round or two, could have jabbed his way to a decision. Tony Tucker was doing extremely well, but his broken hand cost him down the stretch.

None of these guys are half as good as a prime Joe Louis, and all of them gave Tyson issues.

[likeamulekick]

I can name at least 20 fighters off the top of my head who had more meteoric rises than Tyson, and Louis is one of them.

Quick Tillis came very, very close to beating, or at least drawing with Tyson. Some ringside observers thought Tillis had gotten jobbed. Pinklon Thomas, had he been able to survive another round or two, could have jabbed his way to a decision. Tony Tucker was doing extremely well, but his broken hand cost him down the stretch.

None of these guys are half as good as a prime Joe Louis, and all of them gave Tyson issues.

theres no way you can give tillis that fight, he did well against tyson but tyson deserved a unanimous descision and also scored a knock down. Because Tyson was expected to knockout every opponent, his performance against guys like tucker n james smith were ruled as tyson not performing well but theres no question he was winning those fights. It was his 20th fight that tyson had his first descion, where as louis had gone the distance 4 times before his 20th

[likeamulekick]

theres no way you can give tillis that fight, he did well against tyson but tyson deserved a unanimous descision and also scored a knock down. Because Tyson was expected to knockout every opponent, his performance against guys like tucker n james smith were ruled as tyson not performing well but theres no question he was winning those fights. It was his 20th fight that tyson had his first descion, where as louis had gone the distance 4 times before his 20th

sorry jus rewatched the tillis fight and it was closer than i remembered. Tough fight too score though because tillis dictated the pace with his jab but wasnt landing hard with it and most it of it was grazing tysons head because of tysons movement but tyson landed the bigger shots, would still give it to tyson and i think that was his first big learning curve