Could somebody defend Mike Tyson as an ATG for me?

[Deathknight88]

I'm confused. Almost Everyone says that Tyson was past his prime after the Douglas fight. Now you're saying he wasn't in his prime against Ribalta. So when exactly was this guys prime?

Sorry if I seem like a hater.

Wladimir was in his prime against Sanders and Brewster. Tyson was in his prime against Douglas. People mistake Prime for Peak.
Wlad's PEAK was 2010ish-Current. Wlad was certainly in his prime against both Sanders and Brewster. Tyson's PEAK was Spinks, but he was definitely prime against Douglas. Wladimir's level of opposition is not better than Tyson's though.

Wlad's best win(imo) is Chris Byrd. Chris Byrd was already a Ike Left over. I hate using that word, but Ike knocked out Byrd in a way that definitely made him 'left over'. Byrd was foaming and it was scary to see, I thought he was seriously hurt. It wasn't the type of hurt like Pacquaio or Williams laid out sleep mode hurt, it was more like 'wow he hit him so hard he got brain damage hurt'.

But you don't really pick out a best win. That's not how you gauge a fighter's career. What you do is pick out his top 5-7 wins.

Wlad's top 5-7 in whatever order is probably
Byrd-Peter-Sultan-Chaguev-Haye-Thompson-Chambers.

Tyson's would include
Tucker-Spinks-Ruddock-Ruddock-Berbick-Tubbs-Bruno etc. Maybe throw in an old Larry Holmes.


So on resume, a case could be made that they are similar. They both have glaring weaknesses in terms of legacy and we can all admit that.

Wlad didn't avenge 2 of his 3 brutal defeats and the only one he avenged was pretty hallow. Tyson didn't avenge any. Both were knocked out in either their physical prime or boxing prime. Tyson have the edge there because he went to prison for a long time and was never the same. Wlad was always prepared and training but still suffered very hard to explain defeats.

One of the big issues with Wladimir is that he is the only ATG that actually couldn't have beaten a big under dog in a supposed rematch.

Gun to my head- I will say Wlad lose again by Ko if he fought Sanders 4 months after his first lost.

Gun to my head- I will say Tyson beat Douglas in rematch four months later.


Wlad actually couldn't beat Sanders. Corrie Sanders was literally Wladimir's conqueror in every single sense of the word.

[Deathknight88]

Tyson at his best would have beaten almost every heavy weight that ever fought.

Any non durable heavyweight would have been in serious trouble against him.

By durable I don't mean just 'good chin'.

Example:
Mccall was not 'durable' because he was a nut case. He was prone to breakdowns.

Vitali was not durable because the one time somebody hammered his face, it fell apart.

Wlad is not durable because, let's face it. His chin make Lennox Lewis look like granite.

Big Lennox Lewis would have been a great fight prime for prime. Lewis could always resort to cutting Tyson up with his razor locks if things get rough.

[RussellScott]

Tyson

Tyson was a product. A typical 80's sensation built on marketing. Tyson never beat anyone good or in their prime.

[TysonBomb]

Tyson was a product. A typical 80's sensation built on marketing. Tyson never beat anyone good or in their prime.

Who did Holmes beat? Who did anyone beat?

Frazier is great because he beat Ali ... and Ali is great because he beat Frazier?

Tyson was a sensation that was never seen before ... marketing? Destroying people effortlessly with unheard of power and obscene speed is what made Tyson popular.

Spinks, Bruno, Tucker, and Ruddock were all in their primes when Tyson destroyed them. Spinks was the lineal champion and defeated Holmes twice and had a big win over Gerry Cooney. Bruno was a dangerous guy with huge power and a great jab. Tucker was an excellent boxer with great size, speed, and a helluva chin .. and was undefeated in his prime. Ruddock was being ducked by everyone and was the most feared guy in the divison, after Tyson. A massive puncher.

All of these guys would be UNDISPUTED in todays era.

Wlad was getting ass raped by retired golfers in his prime. Typical WEAK chinless euro bum too cowardly to take any chances. Even Steward would have to beg him to throw the right hand. After he was brutally stopped twice he had to change his style and STILL ended up getting KTFO, looking like a drunk.

If Tyson was so ordinary then how come no one has ever came CLOSE to duplicating what he did?

[joe strong]

something to think about...tyson was undisputed champion & had been in 11 world title fights by 24. that won't happen again.....

[jabsRstiff]

something to think about...tyson was undisputed champion & had been in 11 world title fights by 24. that won't happen again.....

You probably won't see a champ schooled and KO'd by a 42-1 underdog ever again, either.

[Scott9945]

Wlad's best win(imo) is Chris Byrd. Chris Byrd was already a Ike Left over. I hate using that word, but Ike knocked out Byrd in a way that definitely made him 'left over'. Byrd was foaming and it was scary to see, I thought he was seriously hurt. It wasn't the type of hurt like Pacquaio or Williams laid out sleep mode hurt, it was more like 'wow he hit him so hard he got brain damage hurt'.

You say that the Byrd loss was scary and ruined him. That is ridiculous. I just rewatched that fight on the prompting of another poster here. I am certain that when the fight ended Byrd was on his feet and protesting the stoppage. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good stoppage, but it wasn't nearly as tragic as you made it sound. After that loss Byrd had some big wins and a lot of successful title defenses. So he wasn't a legit case of damaged goods. And I bet if you asked Byrd he'd tell you that Wladimir gave him a much worse beating in their first fight.

[The Surgeon]

Ignore the fact that he's Mike Tyson. We know he was a sensation when he hit the scene. Just looking at his resume, how in the hell can you consider him one of the top 10 heavyweights? Other than the youngest champion bit (impressive but nobody claims Benitez to be the GOAT and his win over Cervantes > Tyson's win over Berbick by orders of magnitude), what exactly is his claim to fame?

Dont do it Big, dont **** on my main man Mike!!! lol

I get it, he didnt beat any ATG's other than a still highly capable but past his best Holmes and a Brilliant but Undersized Mike Spinks, his comp was average and his reign short. People put him in the ATG bracket based on the eye test, he just looked nearly unbeatable at his best and for me one of if not the best H2H HW fighter of all time. Some people are happy enough to rank based on things like that others insist on Records and accomplishments that are stone cold black and white facts to back their choices. Either way is cool with me i form my own opinions on things and try not to let others effect me.

He did Unify the belts, become the Youngest ever HW champ and then come out of a lengthy jail sentence to recapture a portion of the titles which is seriously impressive stuff though. ATG material? Debatable

[StarshipTrooper]

I get it, he didnt beat any ATG's other than a still highly capable but past his best Holmes and a Brilliant but Undersized Mike Spinks, his comp was average and his reign short. People put him in the ATG bracket based on the eye test, he just looked nearly unbeatable at his best and for me one of if not the best H2H HW fighter of all time. Some people are happy enough to rank based on things like that others insist on Records and accomplishments that are stone cold black and white facts to back their choices. Either way is cool with me i form my own opinions on things and try not to let others effect me.

I try to achieve a synthesis between the two schools of thought. Needless to say I get flack from both sides :hahahaha9:

Poet

[The Surgeon]

I try to achieve a synthesis between the two schools of thought. Needless to say I get flack from both sides :hahahaha9:

Poet

Haha Haters goin hate...

Something tells me u will give em hell back though Poet lol, not one to shy away from a battle after all are u!

Mike's my favourite and i think he's a Monster H2H and does have some real quality credentials but they just cant compete with some of the Greats of the Division if im honest. Still if i had to fight a former HW champion all i know is he'd be in the very last 2 or 3 id choose!