Ranking the "Hands of Stone"

[SBleeder]

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Joe Gans
4. Harry Greb
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Willie Pep
8. Sam Langford
9. Benny Leonard
10. Joe Louis
11. Archie Moore
12. Roberto Duran

[Daddy T]

here's something for ye to think about ... could Armstrong have done what he did if he was in Duran's era?

[Panamaniac]

1. Robinson
2. Armstrong
3. Louis
4. Greb
5. Ali
6. Duran
7. Leonard, B
8. Pep
9. Dempsey
10. Holmes

[BennyST]

Dunno really. Somewhere between 6 and 10. Probably around 7 or 8.

[Mintcar923]

I'd say somewhere in the top-ten with his contemporaries Leonard & Hearns...

[Welsh Jon]

here's something for ye to think about ... could Armstrong have done what he did if he was in Duran's era?

Could he have held featherweight, lightweight and welterweight belts at the same time? No.

Could he have won belts in as many weight divisions as Duran? I don't see why not.

[Panamaniac]

give him 3 fights against anybody at lightweight and I reckon he'd get the best of the 3 - I just wish that 'no mas' had never happened

So do I, but it did and can't be undone. Yet, one can't help but wonder how high he might have ranked otherwise by consensus amongst the elite. I figure top 3 hands (of stone) down (no lower than 3rd. behind Robinson and Armstrong).

[NChristo]

So do I, but it did and can't be undone. Yet, one can't help but wonder how high he might have ranked otherwise by consensus amongst the elite. I figure top 3 hands (of stone) down (no lower than 3rd. behind Robinson and Armstrong).

You think if he beat Leonard a 2nd time he'd go up that much ?, he'd get more credit obviously but his ranking would probably be the same as it is now, you don't go up that much in the top 10 over just a single win over someone you already beat convincingly, even if it is Leonard.

I said 6-10 before so let's say

Robinson
Langford
Greb
Armstrong
Charles
Duran

That's just too much of a move up for 1 win to justify, I'd personally still rank Charles higher then him

[Panamaniac]

You think if he beat Leonard a 2nd time he'd go up that much ?, he'd get more credit obviously but his ranking would probably be the same as it is now, you don't go up that much in the top 10 over just a single win over someone you already beat convincingly, even if it is Leonard.

You are obviously missing the point. It's not the win that might have happened, it's the shame of quitting, particularly from a guy who built an image of machismo. It's the setback of that one incident. If you'd pardon the football analogy, it's like a team driving for a score in the red zone and a 15-yard penalty kills the drive and any chance of scoring. Conversely, "no mas" was the penalty that kept Duran out of the top three. Merely losing the fight had no effect on his ranking, it 's the way he chose to lose it that did.

[Prince_Pugilist]

Panamaniac knows I don't rank Duran in my top 10, but he was a great fighter and if we were only looking at his run at lightweight I'd still rate him just outside the top 10 butt the fact is, what he did in higher weights enhances in ranking but "no mas" negates so much more. That is the complexity of rating Duran.