Mike Tyson VS Sonny Liston

[Cardinal Buck]

For the most part I agree, although there have been some in the ballpark. But Liston's ability to get the knockout punch wasn't the best ever, although very good. And weight is probably more about body strength.

[LoadedWraps]

For the most part I agree, although there have been some in the ballpark. But Liston's ability to get the knockout punch wasn't the best ever, although very good. And weight is probably more about body strength.

What on earth is "body strength" ? You mean core strength?

"Weight" alone doesn't affect you as drastically as you may think, "weight" doesn't specify between, fat, muscle, water, or just plain mass either.

Assuming the bigger you are the slower and heavier you will be is a myth, as is vica-versa. The human body and metabolism are very complex, what may apply to one individual does not necessarily apply to the next. Also do not discount people who defy logic by just being naturally stronger, faster, flexible, or talented, regardless of training regimen, or experience.

[res]

A word about punch resistance - I think they have similair resistance to punishment, although Liston was basically impossible to hurt to the body. But I don't think Tyson has that "tide-turning" type of chin. I think that he takes punishment, but the hurt causes his head to drop. We saw it against Hollyfield and Lewis, and to a lesser degree against Douglas. Liston was capable of turning the tide after being hurt, and we saw this agianst Williams, who "hit him so hard all over [my] body" that Sonny became convinced he "didn't have a weak spot", and he went on to KO Williams in 3.

If Tyson slows he will be stopped. If Tyson manages to keep the pace high, he'll lose a wide decision.

Bad match up for Mike.

Good observation . I think what it comes down to is that chin is different from heart. Having a good chin means the ability to absorb continual punishment without going out. Heart means the ability to absorb that punishment and keep coming just as hard.

[res]

One confounding issue here is Liston's size. Liston was huge for his era, and if he fought today would likely put on another 15 or 20 pounds, but I'm assuming he'd fight Tyson at his fighting weight which was more like 220. So I'm not sure how much of his size and strength were just comparative to his era. I'd expect virtually no 220 pound man taller than Tyson to be able to push him around. Yeah, Liston was strong, but I think it would be less than expected if he were actually in the ring with Tyson. Golata, Bonecrusher, and Ruddock come to mind as guys who were physically either bigger or similar to Liston and couldn't move Mike backwards.

I'd say even Holyfield (a guy who started out as a lightheavyweight/Cruiserweight) was controlling things on the inside against Tyson.

[IronDanHamza]

I'd say even Holyfield (a guy who started out as a lightheavyweight/Cruiserweight) was controlling things on the inside against Tyson.

I'd say that's because Holyfield was very good on the inside in comparison to Tyson

[res]

I'd say that's because Holyfield was very good on the inside in comparison to Tyson

Right, I was just responding to Cardinal who said " I'd expect virtually no 220 pound man taller than Tyson to be able to push him around". Holyfield continually pushed Tyson back throughout the fight weighing in at 215.

[Cardinal Buck]

Tyson did kind of suck by then, but good point. It was more wrestling than Tyson actually moving back though.

[McGrain]

Of recent memory, Oscar had the finest jab I have seen.

Very, very strange jab. When it was "on" he could dominate with it but he tended to get outjabbed by some of the better technicians he faced.

[Sugarj]

I'd say that's because Holyfield was very good on the inside in comparison to Tyson

And that was far from a prime Tyson too.....

[Sugarj]

Very, very strange jab. When it was "on" he could dominate with it but he tended to get outjabbed by some of the better technicians he faced.

Ike Quartey jumps to mind....