Where do you rate Harry Wills on your HW lists?

[Lucas Machine]

Do you feel he has a claim to better Dempsey or Johnson?

No to both. I believe Wills career has been largely romanticized over the years due to colour and his predicament. He was a slightly above average journeyman who would not have lasted 6 rounds with Dempsey.

[JAB5239]

No to both. I believe Wills career has been largely romanticized over the years due to colour and his predicament. He was a slightly above average journeyman who would not have lasted 6 rounds with Dempsey.

If he's only slightly better than a journeyman than what does that make Dempsey considering Will had a better resume. And if Dempsey would have beat him so easily than why did he duck both him and Greb for years?

[Lucas Machine]

If he's only slightly better than a journeyman than what does that make Dempsey considering Will had a better resume. And if Dempsey would have beat him so easily than why did he duck both him and Greb for years?

Dempsey was prepared to fight Wills and did sign for the fight. Due to the lack of demand and the general publics disinterest, the fight was not made. In any case, Dempsey showed far superior skills in the ring whilst making his case as one of the greatest that ever lived. Wills reputation has been built on facades created by those who choose to embellish history and the truth.

Dempsey may have ducked Greb, but that is insignificant when discussing the myth that Dempsey "ducked" Wills.

[JAB5239]

Dempsey was prepared to fight Wills and did sign for the fight. Due to the lack of demand and the general publics disinterest, the fight was not made. In any case, Dempsey showed far superior skills in the ring whilst making his case as one of the greatest that ever lived. Wills reputation has been built on facades created by those who choose to embellished history and the truth.

Dempsey may have ducked Greb, but that is insignificant when discussing the myth that Dempsey "ducked" Wills.

Wrong. There were no formal contracts ever drawn up or received by Wills. And there most certainly was demand for the fight which you can find in old newspaper articles. You should read this before jumping to mythological conclusions. Tempests team wanted no part of Wills. And that doesn't change the fact Harry had a much better resume.

http://blogcritics.org/harry-wills-a-title-denied/

[Lucas Machine]

Wrong. There were no formal contracts ever drawn up or received by Wills. And there most certainly was demand for the fight which you can find in old newspaper articles. You should read this before jumping to mythological conclusions. Tempests team wanted no part of Wills. And that doesn't change the fact Harry had a much better resume.

http://blogcritics.org/harry-wills-a-title-denied/

It appears that you didn't read your own link, mate:


Roger Kahn makes it clear in his autobiography that Jack Dempsey was willing to fight Harry Wills. Dempsey signed contracts to fight Wills on two different occasions but reneged when finances failed to materialize. Roger Kahn noted about Dempsey, “ Not awed by Wills, Dempsey was afraid of something else: boxing without getting paid.”

Tex Rickard, the major boxing promoter from 1910 till his death in 1929, told his financial backers that he would never match Willard with a black fighter. Roger Kahn noted that for Rickard, the issue was as much about money as racism.



Doesn't sound very profitable for Jack Dempsey does it? As I stated before, Jack Dempsey attempted to make this fight and signed two contracts. But there was no money, no demand, from the public that mattered. You have clearly interpreted this to your liking with your own version, which is common, regarding Wills fantasy inflated career. I don't think I need to point this out to you again.

[StarshipTrooper]

He was a slightly above average journeyman

^^^^^ All credibility lost.

Poet

[Rspen46]

Dempsey!

Since Will's never fought Dempsey, he is the one left out, Uzcudan beat Will's & was then left of the tourny that would possibly got him a shot at the title, but by fighting Will's he was out, but he beat Will's of course it was late in his career, but he was still a top contender, so I imagine if he can beat him at that time, so would Dempsey have beaten him, but would like to have seen Dempsey fight the great Black fighter's of his time & Greb, & Uzcudan, but it did not happen, also would love to have seen Tunney fight them, his resume would have been so much better also if he had done so & beaten them.

[JAB5239]

It appears that you didn't read your own link, mate:


Roger Kahn makes it clear in his autobiography that Jack Dempsey was willing to fight Harry Wills. Dempsey signed contracts to fight Wills on two different occasions but reneged when finances failed to materialize. Roger Kahn noted about Dempsey, “ Not awed by Wills, Dempsey was afraid of something else: boxing without getting paid.”

Tex Rickard, the major boxing promoter from 1910 till his death in 1929, told his financial backers that he would never match Willard with a black fighter. Roger Kahn noted that for Rickard, the issue was as much about money as racism.


Doesn't sound very profitable for Jack Dempsey does it? As I stated before, Jack Dempsey attempted to make this fight and signed two contracts. But there was no money, no demand, from the public that mattered. You have clearly interpreted this to your liking with your own version, which is common, regarding Wills fantasy inflated career. I don't think I need to point this out to you again.

I have read the link and know the history of this non event very well. There was demand for this fight as Wills was the NUMBER 1 contender for the better part of a decade. Now I agree with your second last paragraph, its the reason Dempsey's team feared fighting Wills, because the chance he could win and another black man would hold the title. If her I no chance of this and Wills is just a journeyman as you've claimed than Dempsey fights him and gets rid of this long time NUMBER 1 contender. I mean after all, he did defend against the almighty Jimmy Darcy.

And how do you figure Wills career is inflated when he has the better resume between him and Dempsey? You keep dancing around this point, how about an answer?

[JAB5239]

Since Will's never fought Dempsey, he is the one left out, Uzcudan beat Will's & was then left of the tourny that would possibly got him a shot at the title, but by fighting Will's he was out, but he beat Will's of course it was late in his career, but he was still a top contender, so I imagine if he can beat him at that time, so would Dempsey have beaten him, but would like to have seen Dempsey fight the great Black fighter's of his time & Greb, & Uzcudan, but it did not happen, also would love to have seen Tunney fight them, his resume would have been so much better also if he had done so & beaten them.

In 1926 0r 27 Dempsey probably does beat Wills. But its another story with the 1919-1923 Wills. To me Dempsey's legacy is tainted by avoiding both Will and Greb.

[Lucas Machine]

I have read the link and know the history of this non event very well. There was demand for this fight as Wills was the NUMBER 1 contender for the better part of a decade. Now I agree with your second last paragraph, its the reason Dempsey's team feared fighting Wills, because the chance he could win and another black man would hold the title. If her I no chance of this and Wills is just a journeyman as you've claimed than Dempsey fights him and gets rid of this long time NUMBER 1 contender. I mean after all, he did defend against the almighty Jimmy Darcy.

And how do you figure Wills career is inflated when he has the better resume between him and Dempsey? You keep dancing around this point, how about an answer?

I don't agree that Dempsey has the better resume which is why I did not respond. However, I will respond by telling you that I do not agree with that assumption. Dempsey won the heavyweight championship in smashing fashion. He won the world championship that mattered which is a lot more impressive than anything on Wills resume. It can't be forgotten that Jack Sharkey toyed with Wills as if he was a second rate sparring partner. Did you forget about that?