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The man called Joe Frazier

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  • The man called Joe Frazier


    The man called Joe Frazier
    The Heavyweights
    A series of threads about Frazier, Ali, Patterson and Tyson


    Beginnings

    Nearing the end of the century, Muhammad Ali still swam inside of
    Joe Frazier like a determined bacillus. Despite the advice of a few
    friends and some of his children, Frazier was still keeping an obsessional
    hold on Ali, sometimes with a freefall into the void between
    regret and revenge; at other times his contempt just lay there hissing.
    Much time had passed since my visit with Ali, and if he had been a
    sonata of sometimes bewildered withdraw, Frazier was a brass section
    insistent on sending out a triumphal arch of sound not consonant
    with his early self. The usually remote Frazier had taken on, ironically,
    the attitude and coloration of the Ali that had once stuck words
    on him as if he were a store window dummy.
    “Didja bring any money?” were his first words; these were also
    on the lips of all who worked around him. Did he ask me for money
    when he had had a half dozen fights and moved over the ring like a
    confused animal with a trap on its leg? “Well, for old times’ sake,” he
    relented. He growled about what he thought to be a lack of exposure,
    the neglect of the public, how his own greatness was being forgotten
    and how Ali was being made into a god. “A tin one,” he
    added. “I made him what he is.” Including his current state of
    health? “I made him what he is,” Joe said. “Take it any way you
    want.” He threw up his hands and said: “Look at him, can’t even talk
    and he makin’ money hand and fist.” Was he, Frazier, secure financially?
    “I got more money than him,” he said.

    On a bad ego day, Frazier could not turn few
    directions without an instant pick-me-up. Right now, he was getting
    a boost of another kind from a jug of rock candy, lemon and brandy;
    he was not an attack drinker, but a measured one who saw periodic
    belts as an elixir, a protection against bodily invasions. For all those
    pictures of a wounded Ali and his own steady assertions of singularity,
    Frazier was not a natural or even a self-made egotist. As a fighter,
    he had always had a cheerful pride and put high value on proper
    behavior; he was a rule-follower and, from the signs plastered on the
    gym walls, now a diligent rule-maker of gym etiquette and moral
    code. “I’m the boss here,” he said, visiting the jug again with a lighter
    gulp. “Act right, or you’re gone. Act like a real fighter.” His standard of
    dereliction of conduct was Ali. “He’s out there,” Joe said, pointing.
    “On his tail wonderin’ what hit him.”
    Frazier was fifty-five, and he sat in a dark little room, just off the
    main office, a bit frazzled, wearing a black feathered Borsalino hat,
    an insistent tie on a purple shirt against a well-worn, pinstripe gray
    suit, indicating that he was not getting ready to climb into the ring
    down below and demonstrate the virtues and intricacies of the left
    hook. He looked like someone who was on his way out the door to
    check on his stable of working women, but far from it: he and God
    had always been bosom-close, and he always believed that he had
    been selected by Him to knock the anti-Christ, Ali, down several
    pegs. Joe saw himself as the special issue of the Almighty; the
    ******s were infidels and Ali was their serpent. “A man can’t think
    he’s God,” Frazier said, “and He put me on earth for one reason,
    made me a fighter, for when the day come I go and slay a false god.”
    Unlike Ali, Frazier had been a muted religionist; now he was in fervent
    lockstep with the rage of righteous public witness in sports.
    God preoccupied
    Frazier in our chat until the subject of his health came up.

    Health:

    “I got sugar diabetes. I got hypertension. I got headaches. Pain just about
    everywhere. What else you want me to have?” Scattered vials of pills
    suggested a longer list. It was no secret that a medical specialist friend
    had made at least four impromptu visits to the gym over the years, and
    each time personally whisked Frazier off to the hospital for convalescence.
    “I’ll outlive him, count on it,” Joe said. By now, him needed no further
    identification.
    Frazier, divorced, was more pleased to report that his sexual virility
    was levels above merely operative. Having had eleven children, all
    of them grown now, he was (with his son Marvis, his constant
    shadow) a visible figure on the club circuit—and apparently not a
    bystander. His financial picture was easier to gauge, if only for the
    location of his gym, near an ever-expanding university that will need
    the land. The gym, with his name embossed with a Roman look above
    the front, was a well-known center in a gunned-out area. His aim was
    to keep it as a place of work and instruction, not to let it become a pit
    stop for drugs; he was vigilant for gossip, or any furtive transaction. He
    lived upstairs in a vast, somber loft, a tidy and favorable place for the
    chewing of unlimited angst.
    French workers have an observation when a coworker shows signs
    of wear: “The trade is entering his body.” With Joe, as with Ali, it was
    long past entry, it had taken up firm residence.

    Physically, he had a few scuffs here and there, but I
    wondered: How were his eyes?
    It was not idle curiosity, for there was much rumor that he was
    going blind.
    “How is your eye now?” he was asked. “Or eyes?”
    “In good shape.”
    “Show me.”
    “Put up some fingers,” he said. He looked, looked again, then
    laughed, saying, “Which hand?” When he stopped laughing, he said,
    “That’s four on your left hand . . . one on the right . . . five on the
    right. See. I got an operation some years ago. See good now.”
    “Suppose I move across the room?”
    “Don’t have to do that,” he said, quite annoyed. “I can see.”
    Su****ion still lingered over whether his vision had been totally
    corrected; he had diabetes. Frazier stood up from his chair, half bent,
    and bumped into furniture, yelling out for someone to help him find
    “my pain pills.”

    ATG's

    He suddenly wanted to know who I thought were the top five heavyweights
    in history; I did not have enough insensitivity to tell him that
    his old trainer, Eddie Futch, had left him off his list. I told him: Ali,
    Joe Louis, Marciano, Jersey Joe Walcott, and Frazier—with Sonny
    Liston a very close sixth. “Well,” Joe said, “right from the top you got
    that all wrong.” Where would he place Ali? “Not in the top five, for
    certain. I beat him three times.” He waved away the public record,

    saying, “I don’t care about that. I know in my heart! He do, too.” Of
    the latter, it is a lock bet that such an admission by Ali would never
    be forthcoming—even in a delirium.
    Having dismissed Ali as a man and a fighter, indeed tossed him
    into a pile of subalterns, Frazier did not seem to have any place farther
    to go with him—yet held on to him as if he was there and would
    disappear in a second, and in doing so would take him along. “When
    a man gets in your blood like that,” Frazier said, “you can’t never let
    go. No matter. Yesterday is today for me. He never die for me.” Ali in
    mist, Frazier in shadow walled in by heavier shadow. So unmoored
    from what they were and did, the ghosts of Manila.




    “I’ll outlive him, count on it,”
    -Joe Frazier

  • #2
    Joe Frazier like Iron Mike Tyson has proven to the World of Boxing that even though they're small they can score knock out against their taller heavier Opponent, using their Speed & Power!

    The Muhammad Ali vs Smokin Joe Frazier fights were indeed one of those all time greats!


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rolaz View Post
      Joe Frazier like Iron Mike Tyson has proven to the World of Boxing that even though they're small they can score knock out against their taller heavier Opponent, using their Speed & Power!

      The Muhammad Ali vs Smokin Joe Frazier fights were indeed one of those all time greats!
      Their first fight is my favourite fight of their trilogy. It was a great performance from Joe.

      Comment


      • #4
        Speaking of which, you guys ever wonder what would have happened had Eddie Futch not stopped their 3rd fight in Manila? Would someone not have survived that fight? I heard in the Thrilla in Manila documentary on HBO that Ali was considering having the fight stopped from heat exhaustion before it was stopped by Frazier's corner. So, if Frazier had continued, would Ali's corner have maybe stopped it instead or would the fight have gone the distance? And if it had, who wins the decision? Or does someone get stopped in the 15th and final round? What do you knowledgeable guys think?
        Last edited by Anthony342; 04-22-2012, 03:29 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Anthony342 View Post
          Speaking of which, you guys ever wonder what would have happened has Eddie Futch not stopped their 3rd fight in Manila? Would someone not have survived that fight? I heard in the Thrilla in Manila documentary on HBO that Ali was considering having the fight stopped from heat exhaustion before it was stopped by Frazier's corner. So, if Frazier had continued, would Ali's corner have maybe stopped it instead or would the fight have gone the distance? And if it had, who wins the decision? Or does someone get stopped in the 15th and final round? What do you knowledgeable guys think?
          Personally I think Ali would of went out for the final round. According to Futch Joe was practically blind so it would of been another bad round for Joe..

          Comment


          • #6
            So Ali decision or stoppage then.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Anthony342 View Post
              So Ali decision or stoppage then.
              late stoppage. Frazier starts eating a lot of flush right crosses and futch thows in the towel

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