changes in boxing throughout history, how does it effect comparisons?

[them_apples]

I'm not going to fool myself and act like these things don't matter:

2nd day weigh ins, and supplements to help boxers cut water weight and rehydrate.

Most welterweights now are middleweights of the past. Margarito for example is essentially Carlos Monzons size, at WW he would weigh in on fight night at nearly 160 and 5'11. At LMW he's come in at 165 lbs or more.

Clearly doesn't always matter when your opponent is a lot better than you (Pac and Floyd being legit 147 lb boxers, but also have great speed and elusiveness to avoid blows).

I also know Clottey was damn near 160 after weighing in at 147. At 130 Pacquiao was 145-146 lbs on fight night.

It's hard to decide if it matters, size clearly matters in boxing, yet throughout history smaller men have proved otherwise. Hagler being 5'9 1/2 and weighing in at 160 on fight night notoriously fought heavier men and also was rock solid in the durability department. At the same time we have seen smaller men move up and get crushed by bigger men (Monzon vs Napoles)

Anyways, the ther issue:

Stoppages, many fights are stopped very early now. I watch old fights from the 40's and they would really, really give a fighter a chance to fight back.

Lopez was counted as being stopped by Salido, but was he really done? (example) I can also think of a lot of fights that may have been stopped earlier had they happened today.

Some other quick stoppages: a few of Gamboas fights, as well as Corrales coming back and stopping Castillo.

I've been posting a lot as of late to boost up the history section!

[Barn]

Championship rounds.

[Rockin']

Honestly there are alot of fights that I thought were kinda stopped prematurely. But it's better than letting it continue and have a tragedy occur only to give boxing a bigger black eye. Better to be safe, that fighter will come back to fight another day.........Rockin'

[TBear]

Honestly there are alot of fights that I thought were kinda stopped prematurely. But it's better than letting it continue and have a tragedy occur only to give boxing a bigger black eye. Better to be safe, that fighter will come back to fight another day.........Rockin'

Rockin bud, I agree but very often of late I see a hometown fighter score a knockdown and see the referee wave it off and not even give the other fighter a count. Or a hometown fighter land several punches and the referee just stop it. Not much different than judges giving out a hometown decision. I alway thought when a fighter is knocked down he should recieve the mandatory 8count and the referee should then decide if he is able to continue.

I do agree it is better to error on the side of caution, but a fighter deserves every chance to continue if he is able and the last few years I have seen alot of early, bad stoppages. Just think if Ali tried the rope-a-dope today the ref would have stopped it, Archie Moore would have never gotten out of the first round against Yvon Durelle and Foreman-Lyle would have been stopped alot earlier.
Thats just my opinion on it.

[Ray Corso]

The dynamics of society has alot to do with a sport that has a barbaric outcome at times. The refs today in the smaller markets are amatuer refs and they call a completely different fight from the old veteran refs. Telling pros to stop and step off and giving them signals like its a state championship bout. But thats where its at for now, the championship rounds are gone and theres fewer pro refs. Theres no were near the amount of shows as there was years ago the great boxing halls are slowly disappearing. The top Twenty was a big deal and the guys fought each other once they were established. All the refs knew what they were about and who had recoup powers and who had a big punch that might turn the tables at any time. These things were figured in and the need to put on a great show was a must then. When the Gate was important so was the Entire Show not just the TV main go or closed circuit 2 fights. The fight nite out was a big event and the state commission needed to perform well just as the promoter and the matchmaker he used had to also.
Ray

[Rockin']

Rockin bud, I agree but very often of late I see a hometown fighter score a knockdown and see the referee wave it off and not even give the other fighter a count. Or a hometown fighter land several punches and the referee just stop it. Not much different than judges giving out a hometown decision. I alway thought when a fighter is knocked down he should recieve the mandatory 8count and the referee should then decide if he is able to continue.

I do agree it is better to error on the side of caution, but a fighter deserves every chance to continue if he is able and the last few years I have seen alot of early, bad stoppages. Just think if Ali tried the rope-a-dope today the ref would have stopped it, Archie Moore would have never gotten out of the first round against Yvon Durelle and Foreman-Lyle would have been stopped alot earlier.
Thats just my opinion on it.

I agree T-Bear that there are/have been hometown stoppages that were way early. Boxing would be much better off with no hometown decisions or stoppages but it's just part of the game.

I saw in somebody sig showed Calzaghe flurrie against somebody, possibly Manfredo, and without landing any of the 20 or so punches the ref stepped in and stopped it. Now if 8 counts were still in the mix he certainly would have gotten an 8 count. But being that there was no 8 count and that the fighter being attacked never once tried to punch back the referee will view this as a passive fighter not fighting back and stop the contest.........Rockin'

[Ray Corso]

When an opponent is brought in to loose the refs certainly know it. That opponent better not get hurt or other opponents aren't coming to town. Lots of senerios in the boxing world. Ray

[ellobo]

I'm not going to fool myself and act like these things don't matter:

2nd day weigh ins, and supplements to help boxers cut water weight and rehydrate.

Most welterweights now are middleweights of the past. Margarito for example is essentially Carlos Monzons size, at WW he would weigh in on fight night at nearly 160 and 5'11. At LMW he's come in at 165 lbs or more.

Clearly doesn't always matter when your opponent is a lot better than you (Pac and Floyd being legit 147 lb boxers, but also have great speed and elusiveness to avoid blows).

I also know Clottey was damn near 160 after weighing in at 147. At 130 Pacquiao was 145-146 lbs on fight night.

It's hard to decide if it matters, size clearly matters in boxing, yet throughout history smaller men have proved otherwise. Hagler being 5'9 1/2 and weighing in at 160 on fight night notoriously fought heavier men and also was rock solid in the durability department. At the same time we have seen smaller men move up and get crushed by bigger men (Monzon vs Napoles)

Anyways, the ther issue:

Stoppages, many fights are stopped very early now. I watch old fights from the 40's and they would really, really give a fighter a chance to fight back.

Lopez was counted as being stopped by Salido, but was he really done? (example) I can also think of a lot of fights that may have been stopped earlier had they happened today.

Some other quick stoppages: a few of Gamboas fights, as well as Corrales coming back and stopping Castillo.

I've been posting a lot as of late to boost up the history section!

Bigger better athletes today compared to the past are the case with most all sports. I think that generally fans implicitly understand this and factor it in when making comparisons.

The other factors you mention are more troubling I think. The stoppages... bad refs in general... I don't know a whole lot about boxing history, but it seems that there is too much corruption in the sport now compared to the past. More-so than other sports.

[them_apples]

Bigger better athletes today compared to the past are the case with most all sports. I think that generally fans implicitly understand this and factor it in when making comparisons.

The other factors you mention are more troubling I think. The stoppages... bad refs in general... I don't know a whole lot about boxing history, but it seems that there is too much corruption in the sport now compared to the past. More-so than other sports.

bigger and better? doesn't make sense in a sport with weight classes. If anything pit yesteryears middle weights up against today WW's.

Better athletes? yes. overall. I don't know about better though, boxing is a sport about fighting, which incorporates will, toughness and mental strength as well as skill.

[ellobo]

bigger and better? doesn't make sense in a sport with weight classes. If anything pit yesteryears middle weights up against today WW's.

Better athletes? yes. overall. I don't know about better though, boxing is a sport about fighting, which incorporates will, toughness and mental strength as well as skill.

You know... now that you say that I'm reminded of the 15 round fight. Which makes me think one could easily argue past fighters were more tough and better athletes than today's lot. :|

What would have happened if some of today's fights went 15 rounds?