Robbery!!

[Rockin1@sisters]

Have we the proverbial Ali Nuthugger here?

One thing with the jab. Yes louis' jab was harder and Alis was faster. I agree with that. But I would much rather fight a guy with a faster jab rather than a GOOD solid jab any day. Ali just flicked his out all of the time, basic arm punches.

Remember that most people in society normally choose the greatest fighter of their time to idolize and believe to be invincible. I assume that you grew up in Alis time?

He was good but so was Louis.

As far as my words being a piece of crap, what makes you the authority over myself or a known boxing historian like Bert Sugars. Is it days and weeks or even years of research. Is it years of actual boxing experience throwing and excepting blows while perfecting your trade. Is it just that everybody who may have a different opinion than yours is actually inferior. Please, let me know how you attained such greatness.

Rockin'

[MickyHatton]

At the end of the day it comes down to opinions!

Louis and Ali without doubt were 'great' and the margin between their fighting skills for me is minimal, but Ali was 'great' in and out of the ring simply becuase he transended the sport and made boxing a limelight sport.
Boxing then was regarded as corrupt at every level and barbaric and brutal, boxers were portrayed as thoughtless idiots who had no other skills other than those they showed whilst in the ring.
Ali changed that, he brought intelligence and charisma and indulged the media with the same enthusiasm that he indulged his opponents.
Louis played his part also being a black champion in his era did not bring you the same 'celebrity' as a white champion but Louis maintained dignity throughout.
Ali however took this to another level, he was great enough to stand up for his rights (right or wrong) and great enough to come through the oppression and discrimination to stand tall.
Thats why I think he was the 'Greatest'

[hellfire508]

I am a huge Ali fan. But Louis at 1 is no problem - as long as Ali is number 2. I have Ali at 1.

Ali and Louis MUST be 1 and 2 on everyone's list. Any other fighter in those spots - and you are wrong.

[KingAbdullah]

You should see Nat Fleisher's list from 1963. he revised it in 1971 but made no changes. he was totally unswayed by Frazier-Ali 1 fight.

here's his list

Johnson
Jeffries
Fitzsimmons
Dempsey
Corbett
Louis
Langford
Tunney
Schmeling
Marciano

Frazier was the best heavyweight in the world but nowhere in sight.

i can't tell much from those old films but i would take some of those out of there. Schmeling really wasn't much. Not very athletic, no speed, methodical, ponderous.Typical white athlete. I would easily put Marciano above Max. He didn't do too good in his rematch with Louis.

[KingAbdullah]

Boxers are written in the history books for more than their boxing ability.

I still would go with Louis over Ali. If a man could box, as could Louis, Ali was not as good. Louis power was superior to Alis as well. While Ali was more flashy in the ring, I believe that Louis was more technically sound. Aswell, I believe Louis' jab to be superior to Ali. But hey, thats just my opinion.

Rockin'

I got to say I agree. I've seen fighters that accomplished alot in their careers but weren't all that. look at Orlando Canizles who made the record for title defenses at 118. he was no great fighter. Likewise for Manual Ortiz and Eusebio Pedroza at 126. The man had a great chin but he lost to BT in 85 and Lockridge twice. he did not atcually make 19 defenses bu they still say he did. he did not.

I judge on ability. the night Douglas beat Tyson he would defeat the likes of Ali and mechanical Louis. Probably too fast for anyone except for Bowe.

[salsanchezfan]

Sugar's list doesn't surprise me, and through the years, I've decided to take whatever he writes with a grain of salt. In any discussion of great fighters, he'll never pass up a chance to verbally fellate the Dempseys, Tunneys, and any other fighter connected to the so-called "Golden Era." It's just what he does, this is nothing new with him.


I will give him credit for either the ability to change his spots on occasion, or perhaps he's just getting forgetful in his old age (was he ever young?). In his book "The 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time," published in 1984, he lists Jack Dempsey as the fourth greatest fighter in history. Not the fourth greatest heavy of all time, which I think would be ridiculously generous, but the fourth greatest FIGHTER of all time. He rates Louis sixth. One looking at his current list of best heavies ever might be a bit confused. I am not, as I stopped trying to figure this guy out about 15 years ago.

[blockhead]

if you watched classic ringside: bert suger's top ten heavyweights, you have just witnessed the biggest robbery in the history of boxing! why, do you ask? well, here's the list.

10. larry holmes
9. joe frazier
8. george foreman
7. ezzard charles
6. rocky marciano
5. gene tunney
4. jack johnson
3. jack dempsey
2. muhammad ali
1. joe louis

they actually put thee greatest at #2! bert sugar is the closest thing to john dilinger that i know, thanks to this list. this is an outrage! ali is the greatest, was the greatest, and always be the greatest! joe louis would get destroyed by ali, even sugar admitted this, but the criteria he judged this on was the biggest bull i ever heard. i'm furious! aren't you?

yeah, you sure have proven on this site that you know more than bert sugar.
get off it, sugar put together a great list and a great program for us to watch. try posting about someone other than ali or your new boy that you just heard about floyd.

[Brockton Lip]

I would bump Marciano closer to 1 on that list and would make Ali number 1.

[j]

jack johnson #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!

research has shown that many of the histortians and writers that were around from jim jeffries era to ali's, say that johnson is on top of thier list. and even judging from the grainy, slow framed, uneven cinescope speed of his fight footage i could tell jack had the pure skills to be able to deal with anybody. you could probablt argue with fighters such as louis, ali, and marciano to be up for contention as well. it's impossible to acuurately pronounce a best fighter of all time and is purely opinion orientated.

[butterfly1964]

yeah, you sure have proven on this site that you know more than bert sugar.
get off it, sugar put together a great list and a great program for us to watch. try posting about someone other than ali or your new boy that you just heard about floyd.

who are you talking about?