Who would be your ultimate pick at 147 to beat Floyd?

[wmute]

At Lightweight, Duran, Whitaker, Gans, ect.

I would never bet against mayweather at 135-140. He is certainly likely to lose to someone in that list but I would not bet on those fights unless I was given very good odds one way or the other.

First let me add Benny Leonard to the list.

Gans and Leonard are too far away in time for me to do some "serious fantasy fighting" (whatever that means) involving them. Note I rated Gans as the best ever p4p for some time, and I certainly still consider him on the very top, just it is hard for me to pick him or against him. Between the two I would say Gans would have a better time with PBF.

Armstrong, Duran, and Whitaker are of course great picks as they probably qualify for the best lightweights after WW2. I would consider them slightly better at what they do than PBF is at anything, but I also consider slightly less complete and prone to adapt. To me it is -again- very hard to pick.

I would like to add to the conversation Pryor (who I would bet against but would make for the best fight involving Mayweather) and Napoles who was not a real welter, and had the kind of smooth offense to give Mayweather hell.

Finally, and perhaps more interestingly. I would like to attract attention to Ike Williams (also hard to pick) for the following reason. He brings a toolbox, which is kind of the same as PBF's. Mayweather has beaten all styles put in front of him. The only kind of fighter he is missing in the list is not a fighter with a particular style, but rather a fighter who is trained in all the subtleties of the game, just as prone to adaptation, and possibly from his a similar school.

When it comes to versatility and ring IQ, PBF is head and shoulder above the rest of today's fighters, but put him back to say the 40s and things would be widely different. And the best lightweight of those times? Ike Williams.

[wmute]

wmute! hower u doin man?

hammering hank... if PBF struggled against castillo in their first fight, can u just imagine what an ATG pressure fighter will fare against him?

hank was quite one dimensional, but just look up the scalps in his resume...

sluggers, boxer punchers, sweet moving boxers, swarmers, bigger guys... man, he beat em all...

sup man. I am doing great, although very busy (as testified by my long absence) how you doin yourself?

I would not put more stock in the first Castillo fight than I would on the Duran-De Jesus 1.

Armstrong is a great pick as I was also noting in my other post. The fact that he beat all sorts of styles is a testament to how "educated" of a pressure fighter he actually was. However, he would be dealing with some serious height/reach disadvantage there.

This is a problem I have in general with fantasy matchups across eras, moreso when different weigh-in day is involved (as it is the case for pretty much all interesting fantasy fights involving Mayweather). Benny Leonard for example would be too small.

On this note, let me drag you in my latest idea too. Ike Williams was 5'9"...

[wmute]

Oh just to make things clear, I do not think that Mayweather with a career that will end with less than 50 fights is "greater" than any of the names I mentioned (except for Mantequilla, the Hawk, and -depending on how PBF ages- Sweet Pea), just I have a very hard time picking against him head to head when he is fighting guys his size (just like I would no really bet against the other guys mentioned, not on even odds at least)

[joseph5620]

most ATG *NATURAL* 147 fighter can, mostly cos they are all bigger. The really hard thing is finding someone at 135-140 to beat PBF.

I think 130 would be the hardest weight to beat Mayweather.

[CarlosG815]

At 147 Tommy Hearns would knock him out.

[Ray Corso]

In regard to size especially so-called height advantage! The fighter thats giving away a few inches in height on a regular bases is used to it. If their excellant fighters then the tall opponent is at a disadvantage. I'm not sure when this started, I'd guess its when real "in" fighting wasn't allowed by refs and that the generation of fight trainers that knew how to teach it correctly has passed on. Tall, long armed boxer are at a disadvantage once their forced to fight inside and not every shorter fighter needs to take abuse getting in theres plenty of ordinary taller opponents.
If you look at the best welters of all time Mayweather would be "giving away" height all the time.
Sugar Ray
Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns
Canzaneri
Kid Gavellin
..................etc theres plenty more, then theres the shorter ones that could defeat him also. Bottom line its just yaking because its NOT happening. I do believe that Floyd could fight in any era and do well but if it was in the 30s thru the 60s he'd have to fight more often. Not just monthly but during the rounds also. Countering just didn't sell tickets its a fact and talented counters were included. He could compete because hes an athlete and has the boxing knowledge. Ray.

[GoogleMe]

Seriously, welterweight is NOT Floyd Mayweathers best weight. He's actually kinda small.
But at 130-140, he would be a handfull for EVERYONE. At those weights he could exchange, had decent power and lightning speed.

At WW (not Durans best weight either, but I'll give him a good shot) Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Tommy Hearns would be my best bet. Mark Breland and so on I wouldn't favor to beat FLoyd.

[wmute]

In regard to size especially so-called height advantage! The fighter thats giving away a few inches in height on a regular bases is used to it. If their excellant fighters then the tall opponent is at a disadvantage. I'm not sure when this started, I'd guess its when real "in" fighting wasn't allowed by refs and that the generation of fight trainers that knew how to teach it correctly has passed on. Tall, long armed boxer are at a disadvantage once their forced to fight inside and not every shorter fighter needs to take abuse getting in theres plenty of ordinary taller opponents.
If you look at the best welters of all time Mayweather would be "giving away" height all the time.
Sugar Ray
Ray Leonard
Tommy Hearns
Canzaneri
Kid Gavellin
..................etc theres plenty more, then theres the shorter ones that could defeat him also. Bottom line its just yaking because its NOT happening. I do believe that Floyd could fight in any era and do well but if it was in the 30s thru the 60s he'd have to fight more often. Not just monthly but during the rounds also. Countering just didn't sell tickets its a fact and talented counters were included. He could compete because hes an athlete and has the boxing knowledge. Ray.

Reach is a much bigger problem than height...

[C.Y.]

As muchs I like Duran, he would get his ass whooped.. As much as i dislike Leonard, he would have a good chance as well as Tommy Hearns

[StarshipTrooper]

It really isn't that hard to find them. Contrary to what Floyd's slavishly devoted nuthuggers believe as Holy Writ Floyd is NOT the GOAT.....not even close.

Poet