History Section: Lets Discuss Joe Calzaghe's Legacy/Achievements?

[crold1]

Eubank was unranked and hand't won a legit fight in years at 168. Win was worthless in my book.

Richie Woodhall is just not good, man. He is not a good fighter at all. I have actually met Richie Woodhall a handful of times and if he was a good a fighter as he was a moron then he would be an ATG, that's for sure.

Robin Reid is a little bit better than Woodhall but not really by that much. And he was competitive with him.

I mean, we've established his Top 6 wins are in no order are;

Hopkins
Kessler
Lacy
Woodhall
Eubank
Reid

Let's face it, that is simply not ATG calibur or even anywhere near close to it.

But I agree it seems no one opinion on this matter is changing So may aswell leave it. But, I think for Calzaghe to be considered an ATG, the criteria for ATG status must be set to a very low standard.

I predicate on his divisional status and think it iso's there. Greatness has tiers. He's at a lower one for sure.

[StarshipTrooper]

Salud brah. We can agree to disagree. I gotta' go cover ShoBox for the site.

Anybody interesting on it tonight?

Poet

[crold1]

Anybody interesting on it tonight?

Poet

Bogere-Contreras; both undefeated; Lightweight prospects.

[Obama]

Hopkins' greatness was back in 2001. Now he's a cheap imitation of his former self who has to be carefully matched to win. Greatness isn't measured by being just good enough to beat guys who are just good enough to beat tomato cans.

Poet

I liked this one. Almost agree with it too.

As for ShoBox, so far the opening card is far from thrilling.

[Porter's Dad]

Like *** was Calzaghe ducking Pavlik!

He 100% ducked a Pavlik fight before picking RJJ. It was at a time when KP was hot, and HBO, Team Pavlik and the fans were pushing for it. And he picked RJJ instead. Sure, he would've slapped Pavlik around but he didn't risk it.

I really dislike Calzaghe but recognise he was a very talented fighter. His style was ugly as hell and so sloppy but he would be a tough fight for anyone, though I am convinced prime RJJ, Toney and Hopkins would've beat him - just too technically skilled, and seasoned against better opposition.

His resume is goddamn awful for someone as good as him. I mean, seriously.....who's the best win on there? Hopkins? A 43 year old B-Hop, who he....what, outworked by the end? He went into that fight a big favourite, and just squeaked by in a pretty dreadful performance. I don't know how much credit I would give to that, really.

Kessler win/performance was good - but what has Mikkel done since? Beaten even worse by a (at the time) novice in Andre Ward? Go life and death with Carl Froch? Everyime Kessler has stepped up to the elite, he hasn't looked the world-beater his fans (mostly Calzaghe fans who adopted him) use to tell us all he was.

What else....Lacy? Eubank? Get out of here, man.

Look what Ward and Froch are doing at SMW right now, and then look at the quality of Calzaghe's opponents/wins. It's farcical.

Tbh, I don't think he gives a **** what hardcore fans think about his resume. He didn't really seek greatness, so it shouldn't be bestowed upon him. He made his money, can always point to his undefeated record, and has enough fans in the UK to reassure him that he was a great fighter. He's probably very happy with his career.

I saw an interview on YT that Enzo Calzaghe did......I think it was about Cleverly possibly fighter Maccarrinelli.......and he was saying it would be the wrong move for Cleverly to make, to take on a dangerous fight before he's made serious money, cos that was the name of the game.

And that to me confirmed that it was that same mentality that ruled Calzaghe's career - make your money, and don't take risks until you absolutely have to.

Kessler, to me, was the one big risk that he took, and even in that fight, he was favoured to win, and had it in his hometown.

[PunchesNbuncheS]

Oh, that's it. It was white people. Uh huh. Could also be that most people watching on TV thought Calzaghe won only to find out there was a controversy later on. Some of the most educated followers on earth post at CyberBoxingZone...go check the opinions there from fight night. Guys like Ron Lipton usually come with strong cards.

Hopkins wasn't prime against Jones or Calzaghe. He was a smarter fighter by Calzaghe; younger and quicker v. Jones.

Look man, Im not trying to upset you and I can clearly see that my last post upset you. But what I said is true whether you want to admit it or not. There were alot and I mean alot of upset white people when Hopkins made that ****** comment and it came back to bite him in the ass. Of course he was gonna lose the decision if it was close and then the forums were just overloaded with Calzaghe fans afterwards that is true, Im sorry if it upsets you.

Could it be that just as much people saw Hopkins win but since he lost on the cards all the "new" Calzaghe fans just flooded the net to rub it in that he "lost" to a white boy and thats why your argument about opinions on fight night is even in here?

You said it yourself that the Hopkins won argument has gotten louder from the Hopkins crowd but yet the Calzaghe won crowd has gotten smaller. Hhmm, I wonder if what I said earlier as the reason for the pro Calzaghe fight night opinions might be true?

[crold1]

Look man, Im not trying to upset you and I can clearly see that my last post upset you. But what I said is true whether you want to admit it or not. There were alot and I mean alot of upset white people when Hopkins made that ****** comment and it came back to bite him in the ass. Of course he was gonna lose the decision if it was close and then the forums were just overloaded with Calzaghe fans afterwards that is true, Im sorry if it upsets you.

Could it be that just as much people saw Hopkins win but since he lost on the cards all the "new" Calzaghe fans just flooded the net to rub it in that he "lost" to a white boy and thats why your argument about opinions on fight night is even in here?

You said it yourself that the Hopkins won argument has gotten louder from the Hopkins crowd but yet the Calzaghe won crowd has gotten smaller. Hhmm, I wonder if what I said earlier as the reason for the pro Calzaghe fight night opinions might be true?

Or could it be that, like Leonard-Hagler, the people who think Leonard won are over it and the people who think Hagler won bring a lot of animosity towards Leonard with them?

And note, the Hopkins crowd is louder, not much bigger. There's a vocal minority that is still pissed that Calzaghe won. again, the majority that scored for Joe moved on from that eyesore fight.

[TBear]

I have respect for Calzaghe. Admittedly Lacy was overrated and the
Jones/B-Hop/Eubanks wins were after their prime but the Kessler win stands out as a very good win. If you rank him as an all time super middleweight he is up on or near the top. One thing that might hurt is the fighters the limited wbo chose to rank and perhaps Calzaghe should have went after a bigger "title" earlier. But Calzaghe did Wales proud as a titlist.

[PunchesNbuncheS]

Or could it be that, like Leonard-Hagler, the people who think Leonard won are over it and the people who think Hagler won bring a lot of animosity towards Leonard with them?

And note, the Hopkins crowd is louder, not much bigger. There's a vocal minority that is still pissed that Calzaghe won. again, the majority that scored for Joe moved on from that eyesore fight.

You talk as if you know these crowds personally or something. I used something you said about the cowds against you and now youre claiming to know the size of the crowds and how loud they are too? The only thing I agree with you on is that the fight was ugly as hell, in that you are correct.

[SCtrojansbaby]

B level fighter