History Section: Lets Discuss Joe Calzaghe's Legacy/Achievements?

[crold1]

I just cannot see any logcial argument for Joe Calzaghe being an ATG.

His best wins are over a 43 year old fighter, a good but not great fighter and an overhyped fighter who got wasted by a shot to pieces Roy Jones Jr in embarrassing fashion.

And other than that his career consists of pretty much nothing at all. Those 3 mentioned being the only 3 fighters he fought that were ranked in the Top 5 of his division when he fought them in a reliatively weak division anyway.

I just cannot see it.

The difference between top and bottom 5 during the Calzaghe years at 168 was negligible and he fought guys who could have been rated depending on who was asking (like Starie) along with some other guys who got rated later etc. It's a valid point, but you're mildly overthinking the Ring Ratings thing IMO. His comp had holes. he also fought most of the guys who mattered (missed Ottke but Ottke NEVER wanted that fight) and you're not giving him enough credit for utterly wrecking Lacy years before the Roy fight. That was as career altering an ass whooping as produced the last decade.

[IronDanHamza]

The difference between top and bottom 5 during the Calzaghe years at 168 was negligible and he fought guys who could have been rated depending on who was asking (like Starie) along with some other guys who got rated later etc. It's a valid point, but you're mildly overthinking the Ring Ratings thing IMO. His comp had holes. he also fought most of the guys who mattered (missed Ottke but Ottke NEVER wanted that fight) and you're not giving him enough credit for utterly wrecking Lacy years before the Roy fight. That was as career altering an ass whooping as produced the last decade.

Did anyone Calzaghe beat ever end up in the Top 5 after he fought them? I can't remember. I know it wasn't many if there is any.

The fact is his resume has a severe lack of quality and is simply not to an ATG standard.

As for Lacy, yeah, it was a good win. His 3rd best win IMO.

Still doesn't change the fact that Jeff Lacy is a boarderline bum. And is possibly the most overhyped fighter of the last decade and frankly not very good, at all.

[crold1]

Did anyone Calzaghe beat ever end up in the Top 5 after he fought them? I can't remember. I know it wasn't many if there is any.

The fact is his resume has a severe lack of quality and is simply not to an ATG standard.

As for Lacy, yeah, it was a good win. His 3rd best win IMO.

Still doesn't change the fact that Jeff Lacy is a boarderline bum. And is possibly the most overhyped fighter of the last decade and frankly not very good, at all.

I think Eubank, Woodhall, and Reid (while close) are better wins than Lacy in terms of quality. Lacy wasn't a borderline bum at that point though. Just a young fighter who didn't know how to duck and thought he was fighting some feather duster who couldn't hurt him. He paid with any hope of a career. I knew someone significant around the Lacy camp then who told me he didn't want the fight and got overruled. I thought Joe was a talent who let it get past him at that point. He kept telling me I didn't see what Joe really had. Lacy was eye opening. I was there at kessler and saw how he made adjustments against a young guy pouring it out. Now I'm pretty much with Scott.

I'll say the Jones Calzaghe beat wasn't even as good as Mitchell by that point (now there's a win not worth noting). We've had this debate before. Don't think anyone's mind is changing.

[StarshipTrooper]

And Calzaghe didn't wreck Lacy: My Grandmother's smacked me harder then Calzaghe hit Lacy. All Calzaghe did was expose Lacy for the fraud that he was.

Poet

[PunchesNbuncheS]

There weren't that many people who thought the fight could go the other way until well after. It was pretty widely seen as a Joe win among fans (check around on the various forums) with a split amongst factions of the press. The "Hopkins was robbed" crowd has been particularly noisy so the controversy has grown. Agree neither guy looked epic, but Calzaghe is the only guy I've seen since Jones 93 win the second half of a fight with 'Nard. (and Jones didn't make 'Nard look bad in that fight. It was just a pedestrian boxing match that Jones edged with speed)

There were alot of people but they were drowned out by the overwhelming majority of people who took to the forums on not only BS but everywhere else because at the time Bernard didnt make any new fans or friends with his "I aint ever gonna let a whiteboy beat me" comment which just turned a hell of alot of people against him. Because of that comment anyone with half a brain knew that if the fight was close they were gonna give it to Calzaghe and when the fight happened and it was a close disputed decision a ****load of people who are white were all over the net just rubbing it in Bernards face that he lost. You cant deny that, was a big reason why the Calzaghe fans were so vocal about it. Correct me if Im making that up or if that isnt true!

As for the Jones comment at the end, you seem to be forgetting that Jones faced a prime Hopkins, something Calzaghe never did. Jones beat him with speed and with his unorthodox approach to fighting plus reflexes and that was a prime Hopkins while Calzaghe faced a past prime but still good Hopkins and was dropped in the 1st round and arguably lost the fight and never had the balls to rematch the guy.

[crold1]

There were alot of people but they were drowned out by the overwhelming majority of people who took to the forums on not only BS but everywhere else because at the time Bernard didnt make any new fans or friends with his "I aint ever gonna let a whiteboy beat me" comment which just turned a hell of alot of people against him. Because of that comment anyone with half a brain knew that if the fight was close they were gonna give it to Calzaghe and when the fight happened and it was a close disputed decision a ****load of people who are white were all over the net just rubbing it in Bernards face that he lost. You cant deny that, was a big reason why the Calzaghe fans were so vocal about it. Correct me if Im making that up or if that isnt true!

As for the Jones comment at the end, you seem to be forgetting that Jones faced a prime Hopkins, something Calzaghe never did. Jones beat him with speed and with his unorthodox approach to fighting plus reflexes and that was a prime Hopkins while Calzaghe faced a past prime but still good Hopkins and was dropped in the 1st round and arguably lost the fight and never had the balls to rematch the guy.

Oh, that's it. It was white people. Uh huh. Could also be that most people watching on TV thought Calzaghe won only to find out there was a controversy later on. Some of the most educated followers on earth post at CyberBoxingZone...go check the opinions there from fight night. Guys like Ron Lipton usually come with strong cards.

Hopkins wasn't prime against Jones or Calzaghe. He was a smarter fighter by Calzaghe; younger and quicker v. Jones.

[crold1]

And Calzaghe didn't wreck Lacy: My Grandmother's smacked me harder then Calzaghe hit Lacy. All Calzaghe did was expose Lacy for the fraud that he was.

Poet

Your grandmother must have been one tough broad because Lacy got the living hell beat out of him.

[IronDanHamza]

I think Eubank, Woodhall, and Reid (while close) are better wins than Lacy in terms of quality. The Jones Calzaghe beat wasn't even as good as Mitchell by that point (now there's a win not worth noting). We've had this debate before. Don't think anyone's mind is changing.

Eubank was unranked and hand't won a legit fight in years at 168. Win was worthless in my book.

Richie Woodhall is just not good, man. He is not a good fighter at all. I have actually met Richie Woodhall a handful of times and if he was a good a fighter as he was a moron then he would be an ATG, that's for sure.

Robin Reid is a little bit better than Woodhall but not really by that much. And he was competitive with him.

I mean, we've established his Top 6 wins are in no order are;

Hopkins
Kessler
Lacy
Woodhall
Eubank
Reid

Let's face it, that is simply not ATG calibur or even anywhere near close to it.

But I agree it seems no one opinion on this matter is changing So may aswell leave it. But, I think for Calzaghe to be considered an ATG, the criteria for ATG status must be set to a very low standard.

[StarshipTrooper]

Your grandmother must have been one tough broad because Lacy got the living hell beat out of him.

Yes she was :cool9:

[crold1]

Yes she was :cool9:

Salud brah. We can agree to disagree. I gotta' go cover ShoBox for the site.