Breaking Floyd's defence

[coghaugen]

I don't think Eubank has watched enough Mayweather tape.

Floyd isn't ever open for uppers due to his amazing positioning. Marquez has some legendary uppercuts and couldn't even manage to land even one. The only guy who managed to land uppercuts was Zab, who had a very good uppercut along with reflexes. Zab hid his uppercut behind his shoulder Jamez Toney style.

Eubank is saying to merely use the uppercut to create space for the hook, to me that's what he's saying. Don't focus on landing it (uppercut), but focus on causing Floyd to block it with his back hand so it leaves him open for the hook.. it's a quite clever and simple way to overcome the Philly Shell IMO, what Eubank says here

[Young Money]

Moving on - I also found this comment interesting

"But the thing with Mayweather is he is very sharp, I know for a fact he is petrified of losing because the more fear you have of losing the better your reflexes work, I know that. His reflexes are very sharp. You must be a very sharp shooter and strategic thinker to defeat him, or you must not pose any fear or threat to him in his opinion for his reflexes not to work like they should work."

I think Eubank really does capture at least one possible champion mindset with this statement. I know from playing sport that a healthy dose of fear does wonders for your reflexes. And nothing blunts their edge more than complacency.

I always thought Hopkins possessed the whole "does not pose an immediate threat" aura, with fighters mid-way through the fight realising he is slowing picking them apart. He knows how to spoil, slow the tempo and discourage fighters.

[wmute]

These days he is slowing down, but it is hard to tell, because he fought a 38yo and a relatively inept fighter (for 4 rounds only). So who knows, even a lesser fighter like Pacquiao might be able to beat him these days.

Roll back a few years, the question becomes really interesting.

If the question is how to beat him. Get another ATG slightly bigger than him, someone who is smart and has a cpl physical advantages, and you would be halfway there. Ray Leonard should be sufficient for the purpose.

But if the question is how to beat his defense, using similar weapons, that is a tougher problem.

Swarming him simply won't work. If you are his same size, the counters are going to pile up, and you'd be ending up on your ass.

Roughing him up on the inside is also a terrible idea if you are not bigger than him. He is slippery and has his own big bag of dirty tricks.

Eubank suggestion is fascinating, not saying it would not work, but it neglects that a mobile guy like Mayweather has more than his right glove against the right uppercut, including left hooks on the move. It seems more of a method to break Toney's D, not the D of someone who can spend the entire fight on his backfoot.

I personally like the idea of a good jab, because at least it gives him something to work around at all times, without opening yourself too much. But you best have something coming after that jab, to discourage the straight right counter, which he will be timing you with arrive after round 3 or so. And there is always the chance that he starts jabbing with you, but at least you will be imposing your fight as someone said. I basically cosig that.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Feint, feint, feint, feint, feint!

Get Floyd to react, then pop him, it's easier said than done but it's takes serious serious speed, Zab Judah had success doing this. I know Judah isn't well respected on these boards but he displayed some beautiful stuff that night.

[SplitSecond]

overhands

heavy jabs to the body to square him up

and there's the roy jones route, winding the right hand in his face and throwing a left i.e fienting, outhinking
jones also neutralized toney's shoulder roll by making toney the aggressor i.e counter punching

there's also throwing a right hook left hook combo to the body
pretty much guanranteed to turn into thier back into the right

[bojangles1987]

Feint, feint, feint, feint, feint!

Get Floyd to react, then pop him, it's easier said than done but it's takes serious serious speed, Zab Judah had success doing this. I know Judah isn't well respected on these boards but he displayed some beautiful stuff that night.

Yeah, but I don't put much into it, because once Floyd adjusted Judah looked pathetic. It's hard to look at a guy who gets destroyed for six rounds the way Mayweather destroyed Judah leading up to the low blow and say "fight like he did until Mayweather was used to it."

You do make a good point, but I think the key is having the speed to make Floyd not only react like you said, but make his move first. Wait until Floyd commits to a punch, and pounce. That's something Pacquiao has become pretty damn good at, and that's what Castillo did to be competitive in both fights.

And this is as much a damnation of boxing today as Mayweather's opponents, but very few have ever put in serious body work on Mayweather. They all headhunt. When you have Mayweather against the ropes shoulder rolling you, beat the sh** out of his upper body.

[JAB5239]

i had a BEAST of a post written up. not saying it was good. saying it was LONG
long as ****, bros

i went through the reasons why i thought:
hearns would knock mayweather mid rounds
leonard would decision him
burley would decision him
robinson would knock him out mid rounds


but friggin boxingscene or boxrec made my **** freeze up

not happy about it at all lol


he basic theme was that although it might be possible to box with him and be victorious for a truly great boxer, the ideal gameplan would be to impose oneself physically and act on physical advantages, like strength, punching power, durability. most importantly physical strength.
strength to keep your hands free
strength to work the body and break his defenses down




maybe i'll get back to it later.

Can't stand him, but Floyd is a great fighter. But one person I would bet on destroying him at 147 is Hearns. ANYBODY who wants to debate this please feel free. Fantasy matches are subjective, but I have no doubt in my mind about this one.

[bojangles1987]

Can't stand him, but Floyd is a great fighter. But one person I would bet on destroying him at 147 is Hearns. ANYBODY who wants to debate this please feel free. Fantasy matches are subjective, but I have no doubt in my mind about this one.

I don't want to sound like I'm disrespecting Floyd, but it's the truth. Hearns is the worst matchup in the history of boxing for Floyd, I can't imagine any way Floyd doesn't get the hell beat out of him.

[Mugwump]

Eubank is saying to merely use the uppercut to create space for the hook, to me that's what he's saying. Don't focus on landing it (uppercut), but focus on causing Floyd to block it with his back hand so it leaves him open for the hook.. it's a quite clever and simple way to overcome the Philly Shell IMO, what Eubank says here

I agree entirely. Eubank is suggesting the uppercut not as a method of hurting Floyd but rather hurting his defence. Chances are it will rarely - if ever - connect. But repeated usage means Floyd simply has to change his guard. If he doesn't he's lining himself up to be tagged.

I don't agree with those arguing workrate, workrate, workrate. . I mean, if you're Roberto Duran then sure. But I haven't seen any Durans knocking about Floyd's weight recently. If people haven't figured out by now that Mayweather - unless facing a truly exceptional fighter (and Pac doesn't necessarily meet the criteria - purely on skills) - can eat pressure up all day I guess they never will.

What Floyd is remarkably adept at doing is using his opponent's best attributes against him (see Hatton & Mosley). Although knowing he is likely to employ similar in the future might be a good entry point for a tactic to beat him.

[New England]

Can't stand him, but Floyd is a great fighter. But one person I would bet on destroying him at 147 is Hearns. ANYBODY who wants to debate this please feel free. Fantasy matches are subjective, but I have no doubt in my mind about this one.

bro i had a LONG post and its GONE

all gone

and hearns was THE nightmare matchup for floyd. i had a solid 1000 + words on it. no joke lol!

he's too far away to counterpunch. what's floyd going to do... walk him down? lol!
hearns may be the biggest and hardest punching WW ever.

he's got a jab that would back floyd up and combinations that would be too much for floyd to roll and pick off

i think hearns hook and body punches when floyd's on the ropes or covering up would be his biggest weapons

beat floyd till his arms fall off and you can stop him.


and then he catches him on the button and his lights to out

right hand over the top of floyd shoulder
high on the head

one of those wiggle around a bit and fall down type kayos