Larry Holmes vs. Joe Frazier, 15 rounds, prime for prime

[SBleeder]

Holmes also had something Ali didn't- a very good right uppercut...

What are you smoking? Ali had a phenomenal right uppercut.

[Vadrigar.]

What are you smoking? Ali had a phenomenal right uppercut.

Yeah! They way he slipped them underneath in mid combination was beautiful.

[bojangles1987]

I'd take Frazier, Holmes fights like Ali but isn't quite as good. Frazier would have many of the same successes.

[Sugarj]

I agree. I would lean towards Holmes because of the jab and mobility but that hook that Joe threw had a way of changing things.

Yea, in my first post of the thread I couldn't make my mind up who would win this one and I'm still no more decisive.

The problem for any heavyweight facing Joe Frazier is the sheer pressure and 15 round pace that he brings. You have a chance if you have a devastating punch (Foreman), but if like Ali and Holmes, you don't really have the immense firepower you really are in for the long haul. Did any heavyweight in history match Joe's workrate in the final 10 rounds of a 15 round battle? I'm struggling to think of anyone.....

I think prime Ali's footwork takes him to a decision, but it is tough to suggest that Holmes could emulate this.

Over 12 rounds I might well lean towards a Holmes win by decision. I'm sure he would sweep the early rounds and steal the odd round later on to clinch it. But I'll sit right on the fence in a 15 round fight.

[Sugarj]

Larry Holmes was vulnerable to right hands. He always had a good defense against left hooks. Muhammad Ali was kind of the opposite. Holmes also had something Ali didn't- a very good right uppercut...and that would be helpful against Frazier.

I think Frazier would have his moments, but think Larry's left jab and size help him win a decision.

Larry certainly did have a good right uppercut, by Frazier was so good at getting the left hook in when a fighter dropped his right to throw the uppercut.

Ali was caught with the left hook several times in the 1971 fight right after or during throwing right uppercuts. Its amusing, but Ali had learnt the lesson by 1975's Thrilla in Manilla......he favoured the left uppercut against Joe that night and only really let the right uppercut go in pitty pat combinations.......and Joe did catch him with a good left hook doing just that in the middle of a flurry in round 3.

[DarkTerror88]

It's not so much Ali's inability to throw a good right UC, so much as frazier's ability to exploit it.
Frazier can and will exploit Larry's uppercut.

Frazier can fight 3 minutes a round for 15 rounds and keep coming. After round 6 Holmes will tire quicker and Joe will start smokin' carrying Frazier to a brutal and exciting close UD.

It comes down to Frazier fighting people similar to prime holmes. But holmes never fighting anyone remotely similar to prime Frazier.

[Sugarj]

It's not so much Ali's inability to throw a good right UC, so much as frazier's ability to exploit it.
Frazier can and will exploit Larry's uppercut.

Frazier can fight 3 minutes a round for 15 rounds and keep coming. After round 6 Holmes will tire quicker and Joe will start smokin' carrying Frazier to a brutal and exciting close UD.

It comes down to Frazier fighting people similar to prime holmes. But holmes never fighting anyone remotely similar to prime Frazier.

Although Holmes was Frazier's sparring partner for a while......

I'm sure it was Holmes who helped Frazier prepare for Ali in 1971. I'd put money on it being him sparring Frazier in 'The Fighters' documentary. Holmes would have learnt something of Frazier in those sessions.

[JAB5239]

Although Holmes was Frazier's sparring partner for a while......

I'm sure it was Holmes who helped Frazier prepare for Ali in 1971. I'd put money on it being him sparring Frazier in 'The Fighters' documentary. Holmes would have learnt something of Frazier in those sessions.

Holmes was still an amateur and didn't turn pro till 1973. Not saying they didn't spar, I don't know, only pointing that out.

[jabsRstiff]

What are you smoking? Ali had a phenomenal right uppercut.

Phenomenal? It was pretty, fluid, but "phenomenal" uppercuts are thrown by Foreman, Tyson, R.Lopez, etc.. Larry Holmes had a heavier right uppercut that would do something Ali's couldn't....hurt Joe Frazier.

[SBleeder]

Phenomenal? It was pretty, fluid, but "phenomenal" uppercuts are thrown by Foreman, Tyson, R.Lopez, etc.. Larry Holmes had a heavier right uppercut that would do something Ali's couldn't....hurt Joe Frazier.

There's more to a punch than power. Ali's right uppercut was the best in HW history because his ability to land it in combinations was unparallelled.

And Ali did stun Frazier once or twice in their second fight with a right uppercut.