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Sometimes in this game the best fights just dont seem to happen *coughPac vs Floydcough*
Here we look at some HW fights that failed to materialise and what would have happened if they had
John L Sullivan vs Peter Jackson
Why it didnt happen: Sullivan was a bigot. His no less racist manager Muldoon admitted they turned down a $30000 offer for the fight to "save him the humiliation of being defeated by a Negro"
Who would have won?: Jackson would have outboxed him and ultimately knocked him out. The 6'1 13st 13lbs adonis was a boxer of great skill, athleticisim and power, the best HW in the world from 1888 to 1892. The 5'10 14st 4lbs Sullivan was a crude, strong brawler who started out as a bare knuckle fighter (mostly fought Queensberry tho) Booze had a strong hold on John L by the late 1880's tho
How would It Have Changed History?: Simple - Jackson would have been the first ever Black HW champion along with one of THE very first of Any colour
What happened Instead?: Jackson faced Corbett, tho trained for less than 4weeks, contracted a bronchial infection and on the night before the fight badly sprained his ankle - so he was in bad shape. Corbett ran and Jackson unable to move well with his ankle struggled to catch him and it was declared a draw after 61 rounds. Corbett then got the shot at John L. and knocked him out in 21 rounds. Jackson then like Sullivan himself became a drunk....
Corbett described Jackson as 2The greatest fighter i have ever seen"
Tommy Burns vs Sam Langford
Why it didnt happen: Because Burns was offered more to face Jack Johnson in 1908. Burns claimed he would deFend against all comers after he won the title but wanted to "give the white boys a chance first"
Once he'd disposed of the white contenders he would be willing to face the best black men around - Johnson, Langford, Joe Jeanette and Sam McVea. Langford pressed for the fight but McVea beat him to it (Tommy agreed to it) Until Johnson's backers stepped in with a $30000 offer
Who would have won?: Langford. The 5'7 Burns who weighed 12st against Johnson was quick, tricky and a decent puncher. The 5'7 1/2 Langford then weighed 12st 2lbs and was still about 2 years away from his HW peak, but he was already extremely formidible. Sam had speed, power in both fists, good head movement and fought aggresively - he was better than Burns in every department. Langford KO in 8
How would it have Changed History?: The Boston Tar Baby would have been a far less controversial first black champion than Jack but probably would have taken the same path - making good money defending against white challengers. The longer he left a return with Johnson the better his chances of revenge. Johnson went into decline after 1910 while Sam was at his HW peak from 1920 to 1914. The 13st 3 lbs Langford of, say 1912 would have been a far tougher proposition for Johnson than the 11st 2lbs version of six years earlier.
What Happened Instead?: Johnso stopped Burns on Boxing day 1908, 3days earlier Langford flattened leading contender Fireman Jim Flynn in a single round. Johnson showed no interest in Sam or any other black contenders tho he did fight a draw with a lesser black hope in Jim Johnson whom Langford spanked on several occasions. Sam Langford may have been the best HW in the world from 1912 to 1916 but never got a shot.
Jack Dempsey vs Harry Wills
Why didnt they Fight?: Because Dempsey's refused saying "A black HW champion wouldnt be worth a bucket of warm urine" and even added "If a N***er wins it then it isnt worth a Nickel" Dempsey huimself told the press he would "Draw the colour line and pay no attention to the Negro challengers"
Eventually after immense pressure from the press and Commission he agreed to face the declining Wills but Rickard ensured the rival promotion never materialised
Who Would Have Won?: Depends when. The 6'3 14st 9lbs Wills (six years older than Jack) insisted he could flatten Dempsey inside or outside the ring but by 1926 he was 37 and 5 years past his peak so Dempsey would have been favoured. Wills' peak years were 1916-1921. Dempsey and/or his manager Doc Kearns avoided 3 of the best black Heavys around in this period - Langford, Jeanette and Kid Norfolk and post 1916 Wills was better than any of them. He was far superior to anyone Dempsey faced prior to Gene Tunney. The Brown Panther was Powerful and hard hitting but also a skilled, dirty fighter who could maul u on the inside. His stamina and chin were Dempsey's superior (Jack took 13 counts prior to becoming champ) Willis would have stopped Jack in the latter rounds in those early years
How Would it Have Changed History?: If Jack lost to Wills in an early defence another White Hope era would probably start until age caught up with Wills and he lost the title to Dempsey, Tunney or even Jack Sharkey
What Happened Instead?: Wills kept calling out Dempsey, beating all the best Heavys available. Harry lost just 1 of 52 fights in a 9 year period and that via DQ. Finally aged 38 a month after Dempsey lost to Tunney Wills was outboxed and stopped in the 13th by Sharkey after a year of inactivity
Jack Dempsey vs Harry Greb
Why It Didnt Happen: Because Kearns and Rickard were reluctant to accomodate seriously risky challengers and knew Greb was just this. Jack and Harry fought 3, 3 round public exhibitions when both at their peaks in 1920. Ringside Reports agree that in each of these sessions the 5'8 1/2, 11st 11lbs Greb had a big edge over the 6'1 13st 3lbs Dempsey beating him to the punch, drawing blood, hurting him several times and exhausting him. They sparred again in 1924 when the better conditioned Greb dominated, with a local paper running the headline "GREB MAKES DEMPSAY LOOK LIKE A KITTEN". Throughout this period Greb pressed for a title shot but Kearns declared "We want no part of that 7 year itch"
Who would have won?: Grebs Peak years were 1918-1921. After that his eyesight deteriorated and he started to take more punishment tho he kept beating the best in the world until 1926. If they fought in 1923 the Far more Powerful Dempsey would have had the edge in a real fight. The peak Greb was a different matter. He was way quicker than Dempsey, far more elusive and was able to fight a very high pace for 15 rounds (Jack tended to fade). He also had the better chin and could More than match JD when it came to the rough stuff. His displays against common opponents were overall better and he seemed to have no problem giving away weight. Jacks best shot is an early KO but my guess is Greb outlasts him and wins on points
How would it have changed History?: If Dempsey faced Greb in his first defence instead of Miske (which would have made sense seeing as Greb pasted him a year ealier) and lost then say goodbye to the Million-dollor battles with Carpintier and Firpo
What Happened Instead?: Jack had a soft ride until he met Tunney in 26. Greb fought up to 40 times a year against the best men in the world from 3 divisions. He beat 40 HW's along the way, battered LHW champ Tunney, 5 LHW world champions and finally won the MW title in 1923...
More to come........
Here we look at some HW fights that failed to materialise and what would have happened if they had
John L Sullivan vs Peter Jackson
Why it didnt happen: Sullivan was a bigot. His no less racist manager Muldoon admitted they turned down a $30000 offer for the fight to "save him the humiliation of being defeated by a Negro"
Who would have won?: Jackson would have outboxed him and ultimately knocked him out. The 6'1 13st 13lbs adonis was a boxer of great skill, athleticisim and power, the best HW in the world from 1888 to 1892. The 5'10 14st 4lbs Sullivan was a crude, strong brawler who started out as a bare knuckle fighter (mostly fought Queensberry tho) Booze had a strong hold on John L by the late 1880's tho
How would It Have Changed History?: Simple - Jackson would have been the first ever Black HW champion along with one of THE very first of Any colour
What happened Instead?: Jackson faced Corbett, tho trained for less than 4weeks, contracted a bronchial infection and on the night before the fight badly sprained his ankle - so he was in bad shape. Corbett ran and Jackson unable to move well with his ankle struggled to catch him and it was declared a draw after 61 rounds. Corbett then got the shot at John L. and knocked him out in 21 rounds. Jackson then like Sullivan himself became a drunk....
Corbett described Jackson as 2The greatest fighter i have ever seen"
Tommy Burns vs Sam Langford
Why it didnt happen: Because Burns was offered more to face Jack Johnson in 1908. Burns claimed he would deFend against all comers after he won the title but wanted to "give the white boys a chance first"
Once he'd disposed of the white contenders he would be willing to face the best black men around - Johnson, Langford, Joe Jeanette and Sam McVea. Langford pressed for the fight but McVea beat him to it (Tommy agreed to it) Until Johnson's backers stepped in with a $30000 offer
Who would have won?: Langford. The 5'7 Burns who weighed 12st against Johnson was quick, tricky and a decent puncher. The 5'7 1/2 Langford then weighed 12st 2lbs and was still about 2 years away from his HW peak, but he was already extremely formidible. Sam had speed, power in both fists, good head movement and fought aggresively - he was better than Burns in every department. Langford KO in 8
How would it have Changed History?: The Boston Tar Baby would have been a far less controversial first black champion than Jack but probably would have taken the same path - making good money defending against white challengers. The longer he left a return with Johnson the better his chances of revenge. Johnson went into decline after 1910 while Sam was at his HW peak from 1920 to 1914. The 13st 3 lbs Langford of, say 1912 would have been a far tougher proposition for Johnson than the 11st 2lbs version of six years earlier.
What Happened Instead?: Johnso stopped Burns on Boxing day 1908, 3days earlier Langford flattened leading contender Fireman Jim Flynn in a single round. Johnson showed no interest in Sam or any other black contenders tho he did fight a draw with a lesser black hope in Jim Johnson whom Langford spanked on several occasions. Sam Langford may have been the best HW in the world from 1912 to 1916 but never got a shot.
Jack Dempsey vs Harry Wills
Why didnt they Fight?: Because Dempsey's refused saying "A black HW champion wouldnt be worth a bucket of warm urine" and even added "If a N***er wins it then it isnt worth a Nickel" Dempsey huimself told the press he would "Draw the colour line and pay no attention to the Negro challengers"
Eventually after immense pressure from the press and Commission he agreed to face the declining Wills but Rickard ensured the rival promotion never materialised
Who Would Have Won?: Depends when. The 6'3 14st 9lbs Wills (six years older than Jack) insisted he could flatten Dempsey inside or outside the ring but by 1926 he was 37 and 5 years past his peak so Dempsey would have been favoured. Wills' peak years were 1916-1921. Dempsey and/or his manager Doc Kearns avoided 3 of the best black Heavys around in this period - Langford, Jeanette and Kid Norfolk and post 1916 Wills was better than any of them. He was far superior to anyone Dempsey faced prior to Gene Tunney. The Brown Panther was Powerful and hard hitting but also a skilled, dirty fighter who could maul u on the inside. His stamina and chin were Dempsey's superior (Jack took 13 counts prior to becoming champ) Willis would have stopped Jack in the latter rounds in those early years
How Would it Have Changed History?: If Jack lost to Wills in an early defence another White Hope era would probably start until age caught up with Wills and he lost the title to Dempsey, Tunney or even Jack Sharkey
What Happened Instead?: Wills kept calling out Dempsey, beating all the best Heavys available. Harry lost just 1 of 52 fights in a 9 year period and that via DQ. Finally aged 38 a month after Dempsey lost to Tunney Wills was outboxed and stopped in the 13th by Sharkey after a year of inactivity
Jack Dempsey vs Harry Greb
Why It Didnt Happen: Because Kearns and Rickard were reluctant to accomodate seriously risky challengers and knew Greb was just this. Jack and Harry fought 3, 3 round public exhibitions when both at their peaks in 1920. Ringside Reports agree that in each of these sessions the 5'8 1/2, 11st 11lbs Greb had a big edge over the 6'1 13st 3lbs Dempsey beating him to the punch, drawing blood, hurting him several times and exhausting him. They sparred again in 1924 when the better conditioned Greb dominated, with a local paper running the headline "GREB MAKES DEMPSAY LOOK LIKE A KITTEN". Throughout this period Greb pressed for a title shot but Kearns declared "We want no part of that 7 year itch"
Who would have won?: Grebs Peak years were 1918-1921. After that his eyesight deteriorated and he started to take more punishment tho he kept beating the best in the world until 1926. If they fought in 1923 the Far more Powerful Dempsey would have had the edge in a real fight. The peak Greb was a different matter. He was way quicker than Dempsey, far more elusive and was able to fight a very high pace for 15 rounds (Jack tended to fade). He also had the better chin and could More than match JD when it came to the rough stuff. His displays against common opponents were overall better and he seemed to have no problem giving away weight. Jacks best shot is an early KO but my guess is Greb outlasts him and wins on points
How would it have changed History?: If Dempsey faced Greb in his first defence instead of Miske (which would have made sense seeing as Greb pasted him a year ealier) and lost then say goodbye to the Million-dollor battles with Carpintier and Firpo
What Happened Instead?: Jack had a soft ride until he met Tunney in 26. Greb fought up to 40 times a year against the best men in the world from 3 divisions. He beat 40 HW's along the way, battered LHW champ Tunney, 5 LHW world champions and finally won the MW title in 1923...
More to come........
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