Is Bernard Hopkins Greater Than Sandy Saddler?

**Barn** · 08-10-2011, 04:06 PM

Pretty decisive in favour of Saddler IMO.

**Perfect Plex** · 08-10-2011, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Barnburner

Pretty decisive in favour of Saddler IMO.

Ok now explain your reasons for your pick....

**Barn** · 08-10-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Crisp Jab

Ok now explain your reasons for your pick....

I'll do it in two words.

Willie Pep

**Perfect Plex** · 08-10-2011, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Barnburner

I'll do it in two words.

Willie Pep

So he is greater than Hopkins soley off 3 wins over Pep? (A past prime Pep I may add)

So Gene Fullmer must be greater than Hopkins going off you logic aswell as he beat the GOAT Robinson twice?

Surely there is more to ranking than just wins, No?

**Barn** · 08-10-2011, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Crisp Jab

So he is greater than Hopkins soley off 3 wins over Pep? (A past prime Pep I may add)

So Gene Fullmer must be greater than Hopkins going off you logic aswell as he beat the GOAT Robinson twice?

Surely there is more to ranking than just wins, No?

First off, if 26-29 years old is past prime then where the hell was his prime. Also please don't mention the plane crash it can't be that bad if you're beating former champs like Paddy Demarco comfortably the year after.

Secondly no, it's not just those 3 wins obviously, I was just emphasizing the fact they help considerably.

Saddler holds wins over Pep, Flash Elrode Lara Salas Jimmy Carter Paddy Demarco, Joe Brown(who was actually a Lightweight for the bout) Former champs like them plus a whole roster of top rated contenders. (Beating "a champion at a time when there is only 1 of them per division is an impressive feat)

He won the featherweight title two times and the Jr welterweight titles (again when there was only 1 champ per division)

Made 2 defences or so of his Jr. Welterweight title and 2 defences of his Featherweight title with lots of wins against top ranking opponents inbetween his title defences.

**IronDanHamza** · 08-10-2011, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Barnburner

First off, if 26-29 years old is past prime then where the hell was his prime. Also please don't mention the plane crash it can't be that bad if you're beating former champs like Paddy Demarco comfortably the year after.

Secondly no, it's not just those 3 wins obviously, I was just emphasizing the fact they help considerably.

Saddler holds wins over Pep, Flash Elrode Lara Salas Jimmy Carter Paddy Demarco, Joe Brown(who was actually a Lightweight for the bout) Former champs like them plus a whole roster of top rated contenders. (Beating "a champion at a time when there is only 1 of them per division is an impressive feat)

He won the featherweight title two times and the Jr welterweight titles (again when there was only 1 champ per division)

Made 2 defences or so of his Jr. Welterweight title and 2 defences of his Featherweight title with lots of wins against top ranking opponents inbetween his title defences.

Sandy Saddler didn't win the Jr Welterweight title but he did win the Jr Lightweight title, which I presume is what you were referring to. It wasn't really a major title then, really.

He also defended his Featherweight title 3 times not twice.

In all honesty, Saddler could have fought alot more Top ranked fighters than he did, he fought alot of unworthy opposition during his career, most of the time infact.

But, he did beat;

Oscar Calles
Miguel Acevdeo x2
Chico Rosa
Charley Riley
Lauro Salas
Ray Famacheon
Teddy Davis
Flash Elorde

Who were all in either the Top 10 or Top 5 when he fought them, which he pretty good.

He also beat Willie Pep 3 times; Yes, he was faded. But, that doesn't change the fact he was ranked #1 in Saddlers division each time he fought him.

Which alone pretty much blows out the water any win Hopkins has done in his career.

**Barn** · 08-10-2011, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by IronDanHamza

Sandy Saddler didn't win the Jr Welterweight title but he did win the Jr Lightweight title, which I presume is what you were referring to. It wasn't really a major title then, really.

He also defended his Featherweight title 3 times not twice.

In all honesty, Saddler could have fought alot more Top ranked fighters than he did, he fought alot of unworthy opposition during his career, most of the time infact.

But, he did beat;

Oscar Calles
Miguel Acevdeo x2
Chico Rosa
Charley Riley
Lauro Salas
Ray Famacheon
Teddy Davis
Flash Elorde

Who were all in either the Top 10 or Top 5 when he fought them, which he pretty good.

He also beat Willie Pep 3 times; Yes, he was faded. But, that doesn't change the fact he was ranked #1 in Saddlers division each time he fought him.

Which alone pretty much blows out the water any win Hopkins has done in his career.

That first one was a typo. Thanks for correcting me on the other though.

**IronDanHamza** · 08-10-2011, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Barnburner

That first one was a typo. Thanks for correcting me on the others though. I think it's because I was researching Pep not long ago and remembered he had beaten Demarco and got the two mixed up

I just doubled checked because I wasn't 100% sure and you were right Saddler did beat DeMarco one time out of 3.

**Perfect Plex** · 08-10-2011, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Barnburner

First off, if 26-29 years old is past prime then where the hell was his prime. Also please don't mention the plane crash it can't be that bad if you're beating former champs like Paddy Demarco comfortably the year after.

Secondly no, it's not just those 3 wins obviously, I was just emphasizing the fact they help considerably.

Saddler holds wins over Pep, Flash Elrode Lara Salas Jimmy Carter Paddy Demarco, Joe Brown(who was actually a Lightweight for the bout) Former champs like them plus a whole roster of top rated contenders. (Beating "a champion at a time when there is only 1 of them per division is an impressive feat)

He won the featherweight title two times and the Jr welterweight titles (again when there was only 1 champ per division)

Made 2 defences or so of his Jr. Welterweight title and 2 defences of his Featherweight title with lots of wins against top ranking opponents inbetween his title defences.

Age should NEVER determine a prime. Wilfred Bentiez was shot by the age of 26. So I really don't see the point of bringing a fighters age up when talking about ''prime's''. And Pep was past prime, but he was that good even when past prime he could still defeat world class fighters.

I can imagine you mean Saddler was Super Featherweight Champion not Jr Welterweight (Which he never was). And at the time that division didn't mean all that much.

I agree Saddler did have alot of great wins and some impressive feats. But I still feel him & Hopkins aint really that much apart in terms of greatness. And a argument can be made vice vesa for either.

I find Hopkins record very impressive.

Is Bernard Hopkins Greater Than Sandy Saddler?