Harry Willis greater than Dempsey?

[Greatest1942]

Wills also destroyed Charley Weinert in 2 rounds, If I'm not mistaken even knocked him out of the ring, who was a top 5 HW at the time.

I think a case can be made that Wills should be rank higher than Dempsey. You obviously made a great case.

Yes...Weinhart was a good win for Harry Willis

Willis did fight John Lester Johnson too who broke Dempsey's three ribs

[Greatest1942]

Dempsey while still in the 12th spot of my alltime list has potential to fall even further. Once you get past the icon status his resume sports a lot of holes. Im not saying he wasn't a great fighter because he was, but many questions have yet to be answered about his career.

Dempsey was great fighter...in the little footage we have of him, the ability leaps at you.

Anyway many say there was no buisness interest in Willis fight, but I am not so sure of it


"The great yearning of Harry Wills, heavyweight Negro, to clamber into a ring with Champion Dempsey has almost been equaled in recent months by the yearning of a great portion of the fight public to see Wills do so," read a Time magazine article in 1923. "So far Dempsey's sagacious management has been able to sidestep.”

[Greatest1942]

Dempsey was great fighter...in the little footage we have of him, the ability leaps at you.

Anyway many say there was no buisness interest in Willis fight, but I am not so sure of it


"The great yearning of Harry Wills, heavyweight Negro, to clamber into a ring with Champion Dempsey has almost been equaled in recent months by the yearning of a great portion of the fight public to see Wills do so," read a Time magazine article in 1923. "So far Dempsey's sagacious management has been able to sidestep.”

Nat supported Willis's case too and believed that the coolur barrier could be broken.


"The outspoken editor had assured his readers that Wills, who was bright articulate and humble, was “a credit to the game and his race,' Jeffrey T. Sammons wrote in his book, Beyond the Ring: The Role of Boxing in American Society. "Wills himself reinforced that image by downplaying the significance of race in his quest for the title.”

[JAB5239]

Dempsey was great fighter...in the little footage we have of him, the ability leaps at you.

Anyway many say there was no buisness interest in Willis fight, but I am not so sure of it


"The great yearning of Harry Wills, heavyweight Negro, to clamber into a ring with Champion Dempsey has almost been equaled in recent months by the yearning of a great portion of the fight public to see Wills do so," read a Time magazine article in 1923. "So far Dempsey's sagacious management has been able to sidestep.”

That is a load of bull which has been dispelled the same as there was little or no interest in a Greb fight. Dempsey was a wonderful fighter, nothing will change that. But he ducked both Wills and Greb and his legacy has taken a hit because of it in my opinion.

[GJC]

That is a load of bull which has been dispelled the same as there was little or no interest in a Greb fight. Dempsey was a wonderful fighter, nothing will change that. But he ducked both Wills and Greb and his legacy has taken a hit because of it in my opinion.

I'd agree with that and a lot of you other gentleman's comments in here. One thing though as much as I admire Wills I would have put my mortgage on Dempsey had they fought. Ironically I've always felt that Wills legacy has been enhanced down the years by the Dempsey duck. With regard to the fight Wills is made for Dempsey IMO

[JAB5239]

I'd agree with that and a lot of you other gentleman's comments in here. One thing though as much as I admire Wills I would have put my mortgage on Dempsey had they fought. Ironically I've always felt that Wills legacy has been enhanced down the years by the Dempsey duck. With regard to the fight Wills is made for Dempsey IMO

I believe Dempsey wins as well. And Wills rep may be enhanced for the reasons you say, but he had a damn good career for himself anyway.

[GJC]

I believe Dempsey wins as well. And Wills rep may be enhanced for the reasons you say, but he had a damn good career for himself anyway.

Totally agree Wills was a great fighter. Ironically he faded around the same time as Dempsey too. Wills was a big HW who wasn't blessed with what I'd call speed so for me Dempsey wins. Greb had a window where I think he would have caused Dempsey major problems. Suprised that Greb and Wills didn't fight actually, as Greb would fight anyone.

[Greatest1942]

Totally agree Wills was a great fighter. Ironically he faded around the same time as Dempsey too. Wills was a big HW who wasn't blessed with what I'd call speed so for me Dempsey wins. Greb had a window where I think he would have caused Dempsey major problems. Suprised that Greb and Wills didn't fight actually, as Greb would fight anyone.

I do think however that Willis beat better fighters than Jack Dempsey...

A lot has been said about Willis's lack of speed and how Jack Dempsey eats up Willis. All I know was from different accounts, is that, WIllis should be faster than Willie Mehan, was more active than Willard, and had a much better chin than Fulton. He was definitely a skilled boxer, much more than Firpo.

Dempsey did beat some good big fighters doesnt mean he will destroy Willis, who beat better fighters and has a better resume.

I dont think that Meehan is faster than Willis. Contempoaries did not see him as too slow either.

"Wills, while capable at close quarters and in rough going, prefers the long range style, where he can bring into play his speed, skill and cleverness," a 1922 New York Times article said.

I do think that Willis hit harder than Tunney or Brenan who hurt Dempsey. Also I do think that if Dempsey lost to Willis he would not be top 20.

Anyways Willis fought more dangerous fighters and beat them. I see Willis as live money against Dempsey.

[JAB5239]

I do think however that Willis beat better fighters than Jack Dempsey...

A lot has been said about Willis's lack of speed and how Jack Dempsey eats up Willis. All I know was from different accounts, is that, WIllis should be faster than Willie Mehan, was more active than Willard, and had a much better chin than Fulton. He was definitely a skilled boxer, much more than Firpo.

Dempsey did beat some good big fighters doesnt mean he will destroy Willis, who beat better fighters and has a better resume.

I dont think that Meehan is faster than Willis. Contempoaries did not see him as too slow either.

"Wills, while capable at close quarters and in rough going, prefers the long range style, where he can bring into play his speed, skill and cleverness," a 1922 New York Times article said.

I do think that Willis hit harder than Tunney or Brenan who hurt Dempsey. Also I do think that if Dempsey lost to Willis he would not be top 20.

Anyways Willis fought more dangerous fighters and beat them. I see Willis as live money against Dempsey.

This is very interesting. Surely if Dempsey had fought and lost to Wills his career would be much more closely scrutinized. Where he would fall to though is very questionable. When you take all the hoopla from his career I have him around 11 or 12 all time. But a loss to will in 1922 or 23' could hurt his status greatly.

[Greatest1942]

This is very interesting. Surely if Dempsey had fought and lost to Wills his career would be much more closely scrutinized. Where he would fall to though is very questionable. When you take all the hoopla from his career I have him around 11 or 12 all time. But a loss to will in 1922 or 23' could hurt his status greatly.

Jab I will say two words here...From all accounts Willis was a dangerous contender he beat everyone there was to beat. By all accounts the fight would have been popular. ...The gates would be huge..atleast I see more interest than Dempsey Brenan...

I do think if Dempsey got beat it would be a catastrophe for his career.

Beating a big guy called Jess Willard , who was inactive for a long time and Fred Fulton a decent contender is all fine. But Willis would be different.

I would also like to say one last thing...In the Tunney - Dempsey I saw a remarkable thing. Dempsey was completely neutralized in the clinches by Tunney...Now I do know that Willis liked to clinch a lot and fight from the outside. I will hazard to say that he was strong enough to hold Dempsey in the clinches same as a much lighter Tunney did to a faded Dempsey.

I do think that this is far closer than many make out...