Cus D'amato = overrated

[Southpaw Stinger]

Yogi!!!!

Been so long I thought I'd made you up, like I did most of my childhood friends.

[Yogi]

Yogi!!!!

Been so long I thought I'd made you up, like I did most of my childhood friends.

Haha.

Well Stinger, maybe if you wouldn't have skipped out on the last two years of English classes you would have seen me more. Ya bugger. You were my best student too.

Great to see you're still around here, though.

[Mugwump]

The problem with D'amato wasn't his training - the skills he taught Tyson (head movement, punching through the legs, body work etc.) are precisely what any kid looking for a career in boxing should attempt to imitate. D'amato's problem was he exerted an almost sinister level of control over the minds of his fighters.

For years Tyson, his entourage and the press were practically treading on top of each other to project the image of warm and cuddly "Cus". Cus the father figure. Cus the mentor. Cus the man who saw a spark of ability in a troubled child and opened his home and gym in welcome. I remember thinking after hearing this stuff the ninetieth time it won't be long before the Pope issues an edict of beatification so "Cus" can join the rest of the saints in heaven.

But recently the halo has slipped. In a number of articles D'amato has been portrayed less and less sympathetically. An obsessive and abusive character who knew precisely how to manipulate an emotionally troubled boy's worst fears in order to achieve the prize he wanted more than the boy himself. I think it's a measure of Tyson's increasing maturity that he looks back on those days with less and less fondness.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Haha.

Well Stinger, maybe if you wouldn't have skipped out on the last two years of English classes you would have seen me more. Ya bugger. You were my best student too.

Great to see you're still around here, though.

Epidemics come and go quicker than I do.

Oh, have you seen that new CG Yogi Bear? Those Hollywood guys are butchering me childhood with each new re-imagining of my old favourites. I'm sure you remember that essay I wrote on The Smurfs? That was the only A grade I've ever got in my life.

[Scott9945]

He could only teach fighters to fight one way, but it was a great pattern that he taught and it made three world champions. Like any manager in those days, he probably had some mob ties, but there's no doubt he fought against the corrupt IBC.

The reason he was fired by Patterson is because he was over-protective and wanted to be in control. D'Amato knew Liston was bad for boxing and bad for Patterson also and didn't want the fight to take place. But Patterson rightfully felt it was his duty as champion to give the best opponent a shot.

D'Amato always demanded his fighters to be crowd-pleasing and put them through an intense training regimen. I believe he passed his ideals best onto Kevin Rooney, not Teddy Atlas, and it tells something about today's boxers that very few fighters want to work with Rooney because he demands a lot from them.

Great with aggressive fighters, but his teachings were never going to work with a safety-first performer.

That may be true. But you also have to factor in that Rooney was (is?) a drunk and a degenerate gambler.

[Greatest1942]

...only when it was convenient for him. When it suited his purpose he wasn't shy about dealing with the IBC and borrowing money off them when Floyd was on the verge of the championships. Or attempt to work with Al Weill and have him be the promoter of record for the Roy Harris defense. Amongst other things. Cus was also the acting president of New York Manager's Guild at the time they were ordered to disband in 1956, and the whole Manager's Guild was brought forth as a brain child of Frankie Carbo as an offshoot organization of the IBC.

And there's no doubt that Cus was working with the crooks of when Floyd reigned, as some of his closest business associates then were the likes of Charlie "Black", "Fat" Tony Salermo and some others. Mind you, you could easily jot Cus' name down in the "crook" category too if considering his behind the scenes dealings in the Johanssen and London fights, which were dealings that saw him see his manager's license revoked (for the 2nd time...this time he never reapplied).

A bit of googling got me this. I am essentially doing a copy paste because its a rather succint and good answer

"Many of his statements cannot be reconciled with his actions:

* His incessant rage against the monopoly of the International Boxing Club seen opposite his masterful negotiations to capture 100% of the broadcast revenue of fights where he was also acting as both manager and promoter.
* His claims of unfair dealing in the matchmaking practices at Madison Square Garden while he obtains a financial piece of his fighter's opponent in case the title defense goes the other way.
* His statements to the press about the evils of racketeering as his noted underworld business associate is consistently dealt one third to one half of the gate receipts.
* His extraordinary ability to negotiate ground-breaking financial terms for his fighters (of which he earns 33%) viewed against his own complete absence of assets and income, personal bankruptcy, and lengthy disputes with the IRS. "

On a side note he manufactured three world champions in 50 years. And was a rather one dimensional trainer.

[TBear]

That may be true. But you also have to factor in that Rooney was (is?) a drunk and a degenerate gambler.

That might be true but Tyson was a much better fighter with Rooney than he ever was without him. I also give him credit for taking Pazienza as far as he did after Pazienza's accident.

[TheGreatA]

...only when it was convenient for him. When it suited his purpose he wasn't shy about dealing with the IBC and borrowing money off them when Floyd was on the verge of the championships. Or attempt to work with Al Weill and have him be the promoter of record for the Roy Harris defense. Amongst other things. Cus was also the acting president of New York Manager's Guild at the time they were ordered to disband in 1956, and the whole Manager's Guild was brought forth as a brain child of Frankie Carbo as an offshoot organization of the IBC.

There was really no other choice but to work with them in order to get Floyd Patterson a title shot though. He did turn against the IBC, although it also allowed him to hand-pick easier opponents over top contenders who he claimed were "connected". The truth is that about everyone was connected in those days however, the mob had a big influence which is no secret.

I think it's fair to say that Cus wanted the best for his fighters but his idea of what was for the best did not always match with what his fighters felt was best for them. This, along with Patterson feeling he was cheated out of money by Jim Jacobs, led to the break-up.

That may be true. But you also have to factor in that Rooney was (is?) a drunk and a degenerate gambler.

I'm sure he is no more difficult to work with than Teddy Atlas though.

[Scott9945]

That might be true but Tyson was a much better fighter with Rooney than he ever was without him. I also give him credit for taking Pazienza as far as he did after Pazienza's accident.

Certainly Tyson was better when Rooney was his trainer. I've always blamed the demise of Tyson mostly on Don King. His malicious influence caused Mike to fire Rooney (along with Cayton and others) and replace him with inferior trainers.

How many fights did Rooney actually train Pazienza though?

[JAB5239]

Certainly Tyson was better when Rooney was his trainer. I've always blamed the demise of Tyson mostly on Don King. His malicious influence caused Mike to fire Rooney (along with Cayton and others) and replace him with inferior trainers.

How many fights did Rooney actually train Pazienza though?

Im not positive but I think Rooney came on board in 1990 after Paz lost to Camacho. He was definitely in his corner when he beat Dele for 154 WBA title and got come back fighter of the year in 1991. So he was with Paz for at least 25 fights.