Which Title Bout...

[Wild Blue Yonda]

...took more from Frazier, the first Ali clash, or the first Foreman fight?

Inspired by a friendly debate in the real world. I voted Foreman I, but its an argument, yes.

[Miburo]

Not sure what you mean by "took more from," I don't think he was diminished by the Ali fight at all.

[IronDanHamza]

I'd say the Ali fight.

The Foreman fight was brutal but it was quick.

Ali Fraizer 1 was brutal for an extended period of time for both fighters.

[Steak]

Id say Ali 1. didnt Frazier spend a couple nights in the hospital from that fight? he was completely spent after those 15 rounds.

also I believe his weight fluctuated after the Ali fight. probably let himself go a little bit after finally being relieved of all that huge pre fight tension.

but the Foreman bout was still damaging as hell, no doubt. some of the shots he ate were brutal, and yet he kept trying to get up.

[Scott9945]

You can make a good case for both. The problem is that Joe only had two soft opponents between the two fights, making it difficult to notice any Ali backlash. If forced to pick I'd say the Foreman fight took away a lot of Joe's famous spark.

[DarkTerror88]

I think the Ali fight took a lot out of Joe as that he felt like he had nothing left to prove. He also quite visibly pushed himself to his bodily limits. Frazier almost felt pretty much done with his career at that stage.

The Foreman fight clearly hurt Joe as that it hurt the image of his chin, increased the image of his heart and will, and took away his aura of invincibility.

Foreman said that the only fighter he was truly scared of was his first fight with Frazier.

I've talked to Joe and he said that Foreman's punches were so hard that he didn't really feel them as a pain but as some inhuman force shoving him to the ground.

[CarlosG815]

I think Joe came out of the Ali fight a totally different fighter. He was never the same, so I'd say that fight took the most out of him as a fighter.

[$Bullsfam$]

I'd say the Foreman fight because he still beat Ali whereas he had his manhood crushed by Foreman. I mean he always got up but when a bully gets stood up too you know that has some mental backlash.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Yeah, it's interesting. Ali inflicted lasting punishment --- lasting over the course of the bout, & of course, Frazier was hospitalised.

On the other hand, Foreman obviously did far more damage to Frazier's actual career (& dolled out punishment in two rounds of a variety Ali couldn't in a hundred), & had Frazier wobbling like a drunk about the place, again, in a way Ali could not affect.

[TBear]

I personally think the Foreman fight did more damage mentally(which is big). The last two Ali fights just added wear and tear.

One thing not mentioned is after Joe beat Ali he had a couple of very easy defenses(Daniels and a VW named Stander) in the nearly two years before the Foreman fight. He put on weight during that time and fought 9-12 pounds heavier than he did at his best fighting weight(Ali #1 and previous fights). Not saying Foreman wouldn't have beaten him anyways but it surely did not help.