1 Billion: Is there a case of Tyson being a top 5 heavyweight? not in my opinion

[kendom]

Tyson was great champion, definetly a top 10 heavyweight in his prime, anyone who puts him outside of it is being a bit unreasonable, however I dont see how he cuts it into top 5, he never showed heart to come back from behind to win a fight. He lost a LOT of his legacy fights against Holyfield and Lewis, and was susceptible to stick and move tactics like aganist Buster Douglas

Agree or disagree?

[Barn]

Prime H2H, a very good case can be made for Tyson being a top 5 Heavyweight, as far as resume and accomplishments go, I wouldn't be surprised if people had him just outside the top 10.

[Welsh Jon]

Prime H2H, a very good case can be made for Tyson being a top 5 Heavyweight, as far as resume and accomplishments go, I wouldn't be surprised if people had him just outside the top 10.

Totally agree with that.

[Sugarj]

Just as Barnburner said, in a prime head to head matchup Tyson is a scary prospect for anyone in history.

His legacy and record is not as good as the likes of Ali, Louis, Foreman, Marciano, Holmes, Dempsey, Holyfield or Lewis but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't beat several of them on his night.

I'm not one who buys into the theory that in his prime he couldn't come back from behind to win. He was a good league ahead of the opposition in his prime which was not really his fault, but he showed enough heart against the likes of Bruno, Ruddock and indeed Buster Douglas (who he came close to knocking out when well behind on the cards) to convince me that he could have come from behind to win if he was tested.

His 'legacy' fights against Holyfield and Lewis did come too late, not their fault of course.

I think history will be fairly kind to Mike, I could see him in many peoples top ten for a while yet.

[Mugwump]

It makes little difference whether Tyson is prime or not as throughout his career he was bedevilled with a fundamental character weakness - his self-admitted fear of being bullied - which would bubble to the surface (catastrophically) when pitted against someone who could do precisely that.

Tyson at his best was a fearsome prospect. But there have been many great heavyweights (easily more than five) down the years who would likely not have been intimidated by Tyson and possessed the tools to put a hurtin' on him. Against such I see ANY version of Tyson collapsing mentally. At that point the fight is effectively over.

[Barn]

It makes little difference whether Tyson is prime or not as throughout his career he was bedevilled with a fundamental character weakness - his self-admitted fear of being bullied - which would bubble to the surface (catastrophically) when pitted against someone who could do precisely that.

Tyson at his best was a fearsome prospect. But there have been many great heavyweights (easily more than five) down the years who would likely not have been intimidated by Tyson and possessed the tools to put a hurtin' on him. Against such I see ANY version of Tyson collapsing mentally. At that point the fight is effectively over.

I think you're underestimating Tyson's resilience, in the mid 90's he had none. We never really saw him have to use mental strength greatly during his prime. So it's hard to define how mentally strong he was.

[Mugwump]

I think you're underestimating Tyson's resilience, in the mid 90's he had none. We never really saw him have to use mental strength greatly during his prime. So it's hard to define how mentally strong he was.

The fear (indeed, I think the word "terror" is more apt) has always been there. From what I've read D'Amato not only knew about it but actively exploited it - harnessing Tyson's negative energies into a potent attacking force. I remember years ago when he was in his prime someone (I can't remember who) said to me "that man's scared". At the time I laughed it off (how can the world's baddest man be scared?) but those words came rushing back when I saw the Tyson documentary - especially in the context of Tyson's outrageous response to Holyfield's outright bullying of him.

During the nineties there didn't seem to be anyone around who suspected Tyson had an Achilles heel (D'Amato was very, very clever in masking Tyson's weaknesses through the promotion of the "Iron Mike" myth), much less the tools to hit it.

I do recall Bonecrusher running for eleven rounds and then throwing caution to the wind for a few seconds in the twelfth. His reaction at the end of the bout suggested to me that he was kicking himself over falling for the media spin. Ruddock came close but he just lacked that little extra class to put him into the top tier.

Holyfield was Tyson's nemesis. And I don't think it would have made much difference had Tyson been prime. Tyson needed to be the bully in the ring and it simply isn't in Holyfield's nature to submit to anyone.

I think it would have been a similar story had Tyson faced many of the former greats. Marciano, Dempsey, Ali, Frasier etc. these guys just aren't going to be intimidated - and they certainly have the tools to inflict lots of pain on Mike. Take Marciano for instance. If Tyson thought Holyfield played rough he would have no answer than a certain DQ against the Rock.

[StarshipTrooper]

I think I clicked the wrong poll answer :frustrated9:

[kendom]

I think I clicked the wrong poll answer :frustrated9:

I looked at the voters in the poll it puts you under the option that you disagree? do you think there could be a case?

[kendom]

Just as Barnburner said, in a prime head to head matchup Tyson is a scary prospect for anyone in history.

His legacy and record is not as good as the likes of Ali, Louis, Foreman, Marciano, Holmes, Dempsey, Holyfield or Lewis but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't beat several of them on his night.

I'm not one who buys into the theory that in his prime he couldn't come back from behind to win. He was a good league ahead of the opposition in his prime which was not really his fault, but he showed enough heart against the likes of Bruno, Ruddock and indeed Buster Douglas (who he came close to knocking out when well behind on the cards) to convince me that he could have come from behind to win if he was tested.

His 'legacy' fights against Holyfield and Lewis did come too late, not their fault of course.

I think history will be fairly kind to Mike, I could see him in many peoples top ten for a while yet.

The point is he might have showed heart- but he never came back from behind to win and how can we give him an attribute that he never showed in his career? there are stories by Teddy Atlas that in the amateurs Tyson was destroying a guy but the guy was refusing to quit and Tyson almost quit