Manny Pacqiuao a Top 25 all time great??

[StarshipTrooper]

Did I say Historian? Or LEGIT Historian? I'm quite sure I said legit Historian.

Therefore Bert "Shane Mosley is a master jabber" Sugar and Emmanuel "my only advice to my fighters is let your hands go" Steward just simply don't cut it.

Come back to me with a legit boxing historian who has Pacqiauo in thier Top 25 and I will accept it.

If someone's relying on Bert Sugar for their info then they'll never want for moonshine :hahahaha9:

Poet

[SCtrojansbaby]

Did I say Historian? Or LEGIT Historian? I'm quite sure I said legit Historian.

Therefore Bert "Shane Mosley is a master jabber" Sugar and Emmanuel "my only advice to my fighters is let your hands go" Steward just simply don't cut it.

Come back to me with a legit boxing historian who has Pacqiauo in thier Top 25 and I will accept it.

LOL legit historian=some one you agree with

[GJC]

Sugar is an entertaining writer and a great introduction to the sport but thats about it, you should outgrow Sugar pretty quick

[Holtol]

Aroldis Chapman set the record last week for throwing a pitch 106 mph.

Thats good but there have been faster pitchers just not on radar gun. Steve Dalkowski threw 115 mph. Does not matter anyway one of my favorite pitchers Jimmy Key did not have much of a fast ball but was really good. And Billy Koch was in the Jays bulpen a few years ago and could throw 100 mph he ****** ****! If you have good eyes it don't matter how fast something is moving. You have to use tricks like Key or Maddux to fool good hitters. Speed is not enough if you can see things in slow motion. Thats why Zab Judah was beatable and thats why Roy Jones would have lost more fights if he fought more good fighters.

[GJC]

Thats good but there have been faster pitchers just not on radar gun. Steve Dalkowski threw 115 mph. Does not matter anyway one of my faviorit pitchers Jimmy Key did not have much of a fast ball but was really good. And Billy Koch was in the Jays bulpen a few years ago and could throw 100 mph he ****** ****! If you have good eyes it don't matter how fast something is moving. You have to use tricks like Key or Maddux to fool good hitters. Speed is not enough if you can see things in slow motion. Thats why Zab Judah was beatable and thats why Roy Jones would have lost more fights if he fought more good fighters.

Like Tiger Woods started hitting his drives a lot less on average and won a lot more majors

[Holtol]

Like Tiger Woods started hitting his drives a lot less on average and won a lot more majors

The only reason I mentioned Koufax's fast ball was because posters claiming athletic ability did not used to be as good. It does not even matter though.

I don't watch golf but I know Woods is amazing. Does not suprise me that he does not need to hit a ball far to win.

[IronDanHamza]

LOL legit historian=some one you agree with

Well no, not really.

I personally disagree with quite a few portions of the IBRO's ATG list.

But it's still a legit list..

Amongst many others.

[pacquia0]

Did I say Historian? Or LEGIT Historian? I'm quite sure I said legit Historian.

Therefore Bert "Shane Mosley is a master jabber" Sugar and Emmanuel "my only advice to my fighters is let your hands go" Steward just simply don't cut it.

Come back to me with a legit boxing historian who has Pacqiauo in thier Top 25 and I will accept it.

I dont rate Sugar I just stated him as a historian who does. I doubt any of those you class as legit have regular access with the media so their opinion on pacquiao is not known.

Steward has had great success as a trainer. Have you had first-hand experiance with the guy or heard any fighter criticize him. Ive seen many a fighter praise him. Robert Garcia is another trainer who rates Pacquiao as top 25.

If someone's relying on Bert Sugar for their info then they'll never want for moonshine :hahahaha9:

Poet

The TS has Wilde, Monzon and Napoles in his top 25.

Can you not see the case for Pacquiao being greater than any of these fighters ?

[Scott9945]

Sugar is an entertaining writer and a great introduction to the sport but thats about it, you should outgrow Sugar pretty quick

Very well said. Sugar is like a "celebrity" boxing historian who the media likes to use for his ready soundbites.

[Saddlebred]

I'm beating a dead horse here, but this thread has completely changed from Pacquiao as a top 25 ATG, into a Pacquiao as top 5 ATG, into a Manny Pacquiao #1 GOAT thread. Many people have mentioned in this thread and threads similar to this that it is impossible to judge a career amongst the best of all-time before said fighter's career is over.

Let me give you Pacquiao fans a little history lesson here. In an age before Filipinos widely had access to netcafes and the internet...in an age when Pacquiao had never left Southeast Asia to fight, when Pacquiao was on the verge of fighting in the United States for the first time (which eventually ended as a draw)...10 years ago there were people out there saying Roy Jones Jr was the greatest fighter of all-time. You had boxing "celebrities" singing a million kinds of praises of him, you had diehard fanboys talking all day about how none of the past greats could beat him.

Where is Roy Jones Jr on your top 25 ATG list now?

It is impossible to put a fighter's ranking amongst the ATGs until that fighter's career is truly over.

/thread