would it be illogical to have willie pep P4P #1

[Barn]

you think their resumes are "BETTER" than Pep's ?

Yes, you obviously don't haha.

[JAB5239]

i cannot think of many with better resumes

To be ranked #1 all time? Lol, I can think of 5 or 6 at least.

[JAB5239]

you think their resumes are "BETTER" than Pep's ?

With out a doubt.

[JAB5239]

can't have Langfords resume as better than Willie Pep's

Undoubtedly its better. Gans (arguably the greatest lightweight ever), Blackburn, Johnson (who would later avoid him like the plague), Ketchel, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, McVea, Jeanette, Norfolk, Flowers and a host of other ranked contenders including the best black fighters of his day.

[JAB5239]

maybe in your eyes it is but certainly not in mine

Feel free to make an argument on Pep's behalf than, I'd welcome the challenge.

[JAB5239]

Willie Pep's resume includes included world champions

Sandy Sadler
Sammy Agnott
Sal Bartolo
Willie Joyce
Manuel Ortiz
Phil Terranova
Paddy DeMarco
Harold Dade
Chalky Wright
Hogan Kid Bassey

Top Contenders
Ray Famechon
Jock Leslie
Jackie Lemus
Eddie Campo
Joey Archibald
Bob McIntyre
Jackie Wilson
Lulu Perez

Willie Pep was also severly injured in a plane crash in 1947 when in the prime of his career with many saying,"he was never the same fighter after" otherwise his career achievements may well have been even greater.

With the exception of Saddler, none of those top names listed are in the same class as the fighters on Langfords resume. Of the ones I named all but McVea are top 20 all time fighters in one division or another and I mistakenly left out Harry Wills.

Pep's injuries in that plane crash have no bearing on what their respective resumes are historically just like Langford being ducked by any top fighters has no bearing. They are what they are and those are the only merits you can argue in this debate.

[NChristo]

With the exception of Saddler, none of those top names listed are in the same class as the fighters on Langfords resume. Of the ones I named all but McVea are top 20 all time fighters in one division or another and I mistakenly left out Harry Wills.

Pep's injuries in that plane crash have no bearing on what their respective resumes are historically just like Langford being ducked by any top fighters has no bearing. They are what they are and those are the only merits you can argue in this debate.

I agree with Langford over Pep but no love for Manuel Ortiz ?, top 10 Bantam and he was just as talented as if not more so then Ketchel and Jeanette(Lack of footage of the others, cannot judge) at least imo.

[Joeyzagz]

-Harry Greb
-Bob Fitzsimmons
-Henry Armstrong

All have a stronger case than Pep. I have Willie at #5 or #6.

[JAB5239]

I agree with Langford over Pep but no love for Manuel Ortiz ?, top 10 Bantam and he was just as talented as if not more so then Ketchel and Jeanette(Lack of footage of the others, cannot judge) at least imo.

Touche', very nice catch.

[JAB5239]

you got any links or proof of where i can see those guys listed as Top 20 ATG fighters in their divisions... so what you are saying is that those world champions who Pep beat was not worthy fighters?... have you seen any of their fights?

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/50_greatest.htm

Nope.I got no links to prove many of them are top 20. But of you would like to post your top 20's without them I'd be happy to carve them apart and show you where they belong. That really isn't necessary though since you link and the ones I've provided prove Langford fought the superior competition as I had already stated.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/ibro_25.html

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxin...s-rankings.htm

IBRO’S 25 Greatest Fighters of All Time

16.11.06 - By Monte Cox: For generations of sporting men baseball and boxing were the two most popular sports in the world. It was not until the post WW 2 era that other sports started to gain in popularity. Not until the 1960’s did boxing begin to take a backseat to sports such as football and later basketball. In the Oct. 9, 2006 issue of Sports Illustrated a panel of 22 experts submitted their list for the All Time All Star baseball team. The SI listing is a who’s who of the greatest names in the history of baseball. In like manner, the IBRO (International Boxing Research Organization) published a listing of the greatest boxers of all time in IBRO Journal # 91 Sept, 27 2006.

The IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll. Votes were on a points based system.

Voters submitted a list of 20 boxers with one point for a 20th place vote and 20 points for a first place vote. This lineup of boxing greats is as definitive as it gets. The point of the poll was to achieve a community sentiment as to who were the greatest fighters of all time. Having 9 of the top 10, 14 of the top 15, and 21 of the top 25 finishers when comparing to my own personal ratings one can see that the ratings were fairly uniform with the consensus of experts concurring to a large degree. Here is a roll call of the 25 greatest fighters of all time.

1. Sugar Ray Robinson

2. Harry Greb


3. Henry Armstrong


4. Muhammad Ali

5. Joe Louis


6. Sam Langford



7. Roberto Duran



8. Benny Leonard


9. Willie Pep


10. Bob Fitzsimmons



11. Joe Gans


12. Ezzard Charles

13. Ray Leonard

14. Jimmy Wil

15. Eder Jofre


16. Mickey Walker



17. Archie Moore


18. Jack Dempsey



19. Jack Johnson



20. Gene Tunney

21. Stanley Ketchel


22. Joe Walcott


23. Rocky Marciano


24. Tony Canzoneri



25. Barney Ross