Top to ATG WW?

[RubenSonny]

I'll only bother replying to this post, as we got guys who rate CERVANTES among the greatest WELTERS ever.

Okay fair enough some people chuck in the juniors with the original 8, either way a past prime shell of his former overrated self in Chavez doesn't make him better than Leonard.

Whitaker may have not been what he once was, but he was still a defensive maestro and that doesnt really take being in top shape to keep up.

Nobody was dis*****g his shape, he was in good shape for the fight and he needed to be in good shape to do the things he did, he had a high workrate and did some crazy **** in the ring. I said he had looked bad and was badly faded his reflexes had considerably slowed and he wasn't his best at welter either, not to mention he looked like **** against Hurtado despite the spectacular stoppage.

It was his first legitimate loss in the eyes of many, save Whitaker huggers who still claim Whitaker WON.

It wasn't a decisive loss as it was very close and many people including myself thought he won, but then again I'm just a silly Whitaker hugger. I'd find it pretty hard to have Oscar winning 8 clear rounds.

Camacho didnt look good vs Oscar, thats true. BUT that was because Oscar was damn incredible that night, very few welters of that time woulda done any better.

Camacho was done at that point and had been horrible with his weight.

I can see Buddy McGirt doing better for instance. Even he was past it then. Quartey didnt look HORRIBLE against Lopez, its just that Lopez was massively underrated and an excellent boxer with power.

Yup, I agree Lopez is underrated but Ike still looked terrible and was suppose to win that fight without too many problems, I like how you ignored that Ike was inactive for so long.

Quartey looked his best ever against Oscar. Oscar showed what he was made of that night. I dunno for sure, but I doubt Leonard coulda pulled off the same thing he pulled off. Not against iron chinned Quartey who had good stamina as well.

Nope he looked his best ever in his disposing of Phillips in 3, I think your alone in saying Ike was at his very best in that fight, he was pretty damn good though. very good win for Oscar but it was also controversial and he didn't win decisively.

Chavez had grown into a natural ww by then, doesnt matter that he was still able to make 140, he WAS a legit welter. And he looked much better in that fight, hungrier and more aggressive, than in their first fight. Enuff said. Oscar doesn't get the credit he deserves because so many hate on him, its just sad.

Chavez wasn't a great win, he was badly faded, whats your reason for not acknowledging Leonards win over Duran, sounds like your a hater to me, especially with your initial rankings and your other dubious heavyweight rankings that we've all had a laugh at.

[IronDanHamza]

LOL this forum never fails to amaze me Trinidad dominated the division for 6 years and isn't top 10 but some *** from the 30s is because some writer from Ring magazine said so. Either that or we have a bunch of 90 year olds on here

Considering Trinidad was a titlst in 93 and didn't unify until 99 it's abit unfair to say he dominated for 6 years.

However, he is probably the most dominant WW of the 90's.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Considering Trinidad was a titlst in 93 and didn't unify until 99 it's abit unfair to say he dominated for 6 years.

However, he is probably the most dominant WW of the 90's.

He was 16-0 and stopped everybody in spectacular fashion except guys who are impossible to stop(Whitaker Camacho and DLH)

[IronDanHamza]

He was 16-0 and stopped everybody in spectacular fashion except guys who are impossible to stop(Whitaker Camacho and DLH)

Yes.

But he still was champion for 5 years without unifying and wasn't considered #1 until he unified.

I'm not dis*****g he's a great WW, he is an ATG WW. I'm not dis*****g he's the most dominant WW of the 90's.

But to say he dominated for 6 years is a little brash considering it was the last year of his reign before he unified.

[Pastrano]

Okay fair enough some people chuck in the juniors with the original 8, either way a past prime shell of his former overrated self in Chavez doesn't make him better than Leonard.



Nobody was dis*****g his shape, he was in good shape for the fight and he needed to be in good shape to do the things he did, he had a high workrate and did some crazy **** in the ring. I said he had looked bad and was badly faded his reflexes had considerably slowed and he wasn't his best at welter either, not to mention he looked like **** against Hurtado despite the spectacular stoppage.



It wasn't a decisive loss as it was very close and many people including myself thought he won, but then again I'm just a silly Whitaker hugger. I'd find it pretty hard to have Oscar winning 8 clear rounds.



Camacho was done at that point and had been horrible with his weight.



Yup, I agree Lopez is underrated but Ike still looked terrible and was suppose to win that fight without too many problems, I like how you ignored that Ike was inactive for so long.



Nope he looked his best ever in his disposing of Phillips in 3, I think your alone in saying Ike was at his very best in that fight, he was pretty damn good though. very good win for Oscar but it was also controversial and he didn't win decisively.



Chavez wasn't a great win, he was badly faded, whats your reason for not acknowledging Leonards win over Duran, sounds like your a hater to me, especially with your initial rankings and your other dubious heavyweight rankings that we've all had a laugh at.

Au contraire in fact, I've grown more fond of Ray recently. Tis true I didn't like him much before, due to the medias hugging on him universally and overblowing some of his wins. The Duran win was such a win. Leonard chose not to fight like a man, instead he went out dancing and doing stuff he knew Duran couldn't. Thats the same what Floyd does today and has been doing since he turned a ww, mostly. It just isnt fair. Not to mention the farce that the third Duran fight was. Man was so out of shape and overweight, he belonged in the WWF ring, not the boxing one.

But I apreciate Ray because of his honesty and generosity, he never talks bs and says he was robbed etc. A great guy and he was at his peak an incredible fighter. A complete package.

[RubenSonny]

Au contraire in fact, I've grown more fond of Ray recently. Tis true I didn't like him much before, due to the medias hugging on him universally and overblowing some of his wins. The Duran win was such a win. Leonard chose not to fight like a man, instead he went out dancing and doing stuff he knew Duran couldn't. Thats the same what Floyd does today and has been doing since he turned a ww, mostly. It just isnt fair. Not to mention the farce that the third Duran fight was. Man was so out of shape and overweight, he belonged in the WWF ring, not the boxing one.

But I apreciate Ray because of his honesty and generosity, he never talks bs and says he was robbed etc. A great guy and he was at his peak an incredible fighter. A complete package.

Why did you respond to only that? at the bolded, are you deluded how is it not fair, and I haven't seen Floyd dance? what fights are these, yeah the Baldomir fight was boring. So what if he did things Duran couldn't wtf that is a totally ******ed excuse he won fair and square and as decisively as you can win a fight.

[Pastrano]

Why did you respond to only that? at the bolded, are you deluded how is it not fair, and I haven't seen Floyd dance? what fights are these, yeah the Baldomir fight was boring. So what if he did things Duran couldn't wtf that is a totally ******ed excuse he won fair and square and as decisively as you can win a fight.

No, I thought I had bolded the hating on Leonard part...forget it. Leonard fought like a real fighter and traded with Duran-he lost. Then, instead of trying to beat Duran with the same tactics, he used tricks. That I just don't respect.

[RubenSonny]

No, I thought I had bolded the hating on Leonard part...forget it.

Yeah okay cool, why not respond to anything else?

[Pastrano]

Yeah okay cool, why not respond to anything else?

I edited my post. Look up.

[RubenSonny]

No, I thought I had bolded the hating on Leonard part...forget it. Leonard fought like a real fighter and traded with Duran-he lost. Then, instead of trying to beat Duran with the same tactics, he used tricks. That I just don't respect.

Well thats just silly, funny you give Oscar credit for beating Trinidad, even though he "ran". Even so you didn't respond to my arguments.