Joe Frazier delivers hellacious beating to Ali.

[bojangles1987]

Frazier's style would always be hell for any version of Ali, but Ali is just as much hell for Frazier. They matched up perfectly.

[sonnyboyx2]

Now you're falling back on semantics. Poet has clearly explained what he means by "not the same" which I have agreed with. George Chuvalo who fought Ali Pre and post lay off said:

"How was Ali different? He was just more energetic in the first fight. He threw more punches and had more verve in a sense. He was trying to get by in the second fight with a lot of guile. He didn’t have the same physical attributes as he had in the first fight. He had flashes of it but he couldn’t sustain it like he could in the first fight. In the first fight, he was a much better conditioned athlete. After his exile, he never really came back. He never came back to the fighter he was before he was put into exile. He was never that fighter ever, ever, ever again. Even though he fought some great fights after with Joe Frazier for instance, he was never the same fighter."

Commenting on when ALi fought Frazier:

"Ali wasn't the same guy that I had fought in '66. I '66 he was quicker and he had more stamina. He could throw punches at length for a longer period of time"


Stones! has already responded to your claims too in an earlier thread.

Ali never faced the quality of opponent pre-exile that he did in his return

[CarlosG815]

Now you're falling back on semantics. Poet has clearly explained what he means by "not the same" which I have agreed with. George Chuvalo who fought Ali Pre and post lay off said:

"How was Ali different? He was just more energetic in the first fight. He threw more punches and had more verve in a sense. He was trying to get by in the second fight with a lot of guile. He didn’t have the same physical attributes as he had in the first fight. He had flashes of it but he couldn’t sustain it like he could in the first fight. In the first fight, he was a much better conditioned athlete. After his exile, he never really came back. He never came back to the fighter he was before he was put into exile. He was never that fighter ever, ever, ever again. Even though he fought some great fights after with Joe Frazier for instance, he was never the same fighter."

Commenting on when ALi fought Frazier:

"Ali wasn't the same guy that I had fought in '66. I '66 he was quicker and he had more stamina. He could throw punches at length for a longer period of time"


Stones! has already responded to your claims too in an earlier thread.

That does not change the fact that Ali was, while different, still a great fighter and just as good if not better than he was before his layoff.

And just because Stones responded doesn't mean he is correct. All he did was inadvertently name call for 3 paragraphs with the moral of his ramble being "Ali was rusty when he fought Frazier."

Just because he rambled on and called into question my knowledge of the fight does not mean he is right in what he said.

[BG_Knocc_Out]

Anyone who's boxed knows that sparring is no substitute for competitive fighting.

I'd make a comment about Mike Tyson's abilities after his prison stint, but that would give you more ammo.

Not a substitute, but it certainly can sharpen your skills greatly.

[CarlosG815]

Not a substitute, but it certainly can sharpen your skills greatly.

Do not listen to his nonsense. Guys like Tyson had to rely solely on sparring, as many of their fights lasted 3 minutes or less. The way he got into that kind of condition was by sparring high end competitive sparring partners. Bleeder is a troll and by you agreeing that it is not a substitute you are feeding his troll behaviors.

Sparring IS the way you get into fight shape and prepare for a fight.

[joseph5620]

Indeed frazier's style gave Ali problems, but pound for pound Ali is the better boxer, has the better resume and is 2-1 with frazier.

I respect frazier, loved his style, but lets be real he couldn't box that well. His footwork wasn't good and he was sluggish.

Frazier was actually very fast with his feet when cutting off the ring. I never saw him as sluggish.

[joseph5620]

I agree. The toughest, grittiest, most hungry fighter he ever faced with a lot to prove... was Joe Frazier! Talk about being past it... Liston and Patterson weren't sharp.

It's funny you say that, as I've always believed that to be Ali's best performance as well, yet look at the responses with people saying Ali was ring rusty and far from his best, and it wasn't even the best "post ban" version of Ali... When in reality, it was THE BEST POST BAN VERSION OF ALI!

It's amazing to see a fighter like Joe Frazier have his win's downplayed, but other fighters who can't hold a candle to his legend are defended tooth and nail to the death in their victories...

You and Sonny are probably the only two people on the planet who believe that.



Ali/Foreman



Ali/Liston


Ali/Frazier 3



All better performances by Ali.

[CarlosG815]

You and Sonny are probably the only two people on the planet who believe that.



Ali/Foreman



Ali/Liston


Ali/Frazier 3



All better performances by Ali.

All good performances but not better performances. And apparently you did not read this piece by Frank Lotierzo. So there is at least 3 of us on the planet who believe that.


March 8, 1971 Frazier vs. Ali I

Frazier vs. Ali I was the biggest and most anticipated sporting event in history. Never before have two undefeated heavyweights both in their prime had a legitimate claim to the title like Ali and Frazier did in 1971. Some insist that Ali was not at his best due to his 43 month layoff when he fought Frazier the first time, and there is much merit to that claim. Even though he stopped the top two contenders at the time in Quarry and Bonavena, before fighting Frazier. However, after seeing the fight, there is absolutely no question that Ali never threw and landed harder punches than he did on Joe Frazier in their first fight. In fact, during the first five rounds of Super-Fight one, Ali was never sharper or punched better. If you doubt that, I suggest you go back and look at the tape of rounds one through five.

Many fans and historians believe Ali's peak was his fight versus Cleveland Williams. Williams may have been Ali's peak regarding his speed and brilliance, but he had not filled out to where he was when he fought Frazier at age 29. The Ali of March 1971 was bigger, stronger, hit harder, and a more formidable fighter than the Ali of November 1966. During Ali's exile he matured and got stronger.

Going into the Frazier fight, many questioned Ali's chin, and toughness. Throughout his first fight with Frazier, Ali was hit continuously with Frazier's devastating left hook to the body and head. Never before or after had any fighter landed on Ali with the frequency and power of Frazier. Also during this fight, Ali launched and landed some of the swiftest and hardest combinations he ever hit any fighter with. Had Ali been fighting any other heavyweight except that Joe Frazier on that night, he would've most likely been a knockout winner.

The problem Ali had, was a prime 27 year old Joe Frazier in front of him. Going into his first fight with Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier was better prepared mentally and physically than any other fighter in history was for any opponent. Frazier knew he had the perfect style to fight Ali, and at that time in his career, he had it down pat. On the night of March 8th, 1971, Frazier was not to be denied. He was ready for anything Ali had to offer mentally or physically.

Going into Frazier-Ali I, Ali's plan was to beat Frazier up so badly early in the fight that he would either stop him, or have him so beaten up that he wouldn't have anything left for the last five rounds of the bout. By Frazier being so determined to beat Ali, he forced him to fight at a pace Ali wasn't accustomed to. Frazier also forced Ali to punch with authority just to try and keep him off. This resulted in Ali throwing bombs at Joe. Although Ali really rocked Joe in those first three or four rounds, he wasn't able to get him out. From rounds 6 through 15, Ali did all he could to try and impede Frazier's aggression, but Frazier was not to be denied. On this night, Ali never hit harder or demonstrated a better chin. I don't care what fight of Ali's career you think of, he was never better than he was against Joe Frazier in their first fight. He never hit harder or took it better, it's just that on March 8th 1971 Joe Frazier fought possibly the greatest fight of any heavyweight in boxing history.

[Vadrigar.]

That does not change the fact that Ali was, while different, still a great fighter and just as good if not better than he was before his layoff.

And just because Stones responded doesn't mean he is correct. All he did was inadvertently name call for 3 paragraphs with the moral of his ramble being "Ali was rusty when he fought Frazier."

Just because he rambled on and called into question my knowledge of the fight does not mean he is right in what he said.

Ali was prime in 1967, after his lay off he was not. Maybe you should actually read what he said and respond.

[CarlosG815]

Ali was prime in 1967, after his lay off he was not. Maybe you should actually read what he said and respond.

What evidence do you have to support what you are saying? Ali had all his best wins and performances post ban including wins over Quarry, Bonavena, Foster, 3 classics w Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, and other greatness defining victories and performances.

What are you basing this "he was not prime anymore" claim? When did Ali show post ban that he was not "prime?"

He was not the same lighter guy who was quicker on his feet but he was still prime and I think that his resume post ban is what has defined his place as the GOAT.