Tua vs. The Greats

[RubenSonny]

what classes are byrd , lewis and ibeabuchi?

please clarify.

you can't just say "oh these are the 3 fighters he lost to so everytime he stepped up in class he lost"

lewis is in a class by himself as an atg hof level fighter.

everyone else is just good to very good.

how is fighting byrd a step up in class to fighting maskaev?

how is fighting ibeabuchi a step up in class to fighting rahman?

see the point?

Clarifying won't change the point, pretty much all the fighters you named are above Tua (in the OP as they are mostly ATGs which is not what Tua was), I class those as the 3 best fighters he faced, Wepner and Quarry are both contenders but I still describe Quarry as a different class/step-up of fighter.

[Left Hook Tua]

Clarifying won't change the point, pretty much all the fighters you named are above Tua (in the OP), I class those as the 3 best fighters he faced, Wepner and Quarry are both contenders but I still describe Quarry as a different class of fighter.

being above someone doesn't mean an automatic win.



as far as clarifying the class of byrd and ike...... i'm just curious because of your statement "EVERYTIME he stepped up in class....."

2 of his losses was to byrd and ike.

good fighters.

but was tua fighting them really "stepping up in class"?

rahman , ruiz , oquendo , maskaev , etc. were good fighters. on the level of an ike or byrd i say. tua beat them.

do you think ike and byrd are that much superior to those guys?

or did you just make that statement because you thought it sounded cool?

[RubenSonny]

being above someone doesn't mean an automatic win.



as far as clarifying the class of byrd and ike...... i'm just curious because of your statement "EVERYTIME he stepped up in class....."

2 of his losses was to byrd and ike.

good fighters.

but was tua fighting them really "stepping up in class"?

rahman , ruiz , oquendo , maskaev , etc. were good fighters. on the level of an ike or byrd i say. tua beat them.

do you think ike and byrd are that much superior to those guys?

or did you just make that statement because you thought it sounded cool?

This...........nah I do genuinely think they were all superior to those fighters in terms of H2H ability, Ruiz has a relatively decent record but I never thought much of his ability that's all. I do agree that its not an automatic win and I rarely say that fighter X would definately beat Fighter Z, this is boxing and someone always has a chance but I think in most of those match-ups hes reduced to a punchers chance, I'd give him a good chance against Patterson, Johnson, and Wlad.

[Holtol]

maybe willard would have lasted longer if dempsey didn't have a horseshoe in his glove.


you know we can list a ton of fights where a smaller man beat the bigger man. it still doesn't mean size advantage doesn't matter.

more often than not it does.

I think talent matters more then 30 pounds of weight. Never thought Tua was as good as you think.

[IronDanHamza]

He loses to almost all of them in my honest opinion.

Nchristo made a good point with Johnson, the 12 rounds would have an effect on him.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I could never speak low enough of Tua during his career, frankly. Stereotypical Islander's approach to discipline, extremely limited tactically, & to a lesser extent, physically. Looked great when someone stood in front of him & created a lot of hype, then went straight to **** when someone showed a lick of Boxing nous.

He was Rahman's play-thing, & Rahman is one of the worst linear titleists in division history. He was terrible, Tua was terrible.

[young_robbed]

he didn't just struggle with byrd. byrd schooled him.

byrd was a slick , quick , southpaw. understandable.

think of all the guys that had big height and reach advantages over byrd that byrd gave trouble. now think about how byrd actually has the height and reach edge on tua.


tua got his ass whooped to ibeabuchi? really? that was an ass whooping?


rahman lost the 1st fight. controversy or not. early stoppage or not. he did.

2nd fight was a draw but rahman probably deserved it.

Yeah, well, considering he lost to all these men he shouldnt even be considering against the greats. the class difference is THAT WIDE.

[mickey malone]

that would apply to power.

but shavers didn't have the greatest of chins.

shavers was prone to cuts.

shavers did not have the best stamina.

tua as you know has a top notch chin , very durable and had very good stamina.

I'm saying exactly that, but Shavers generally fought in tougher company than Tua. This with the exception of LL who beat him without trying really.

Agreed that Tua's probably ahead in the stamina and chin departments, but that's all really. Matching them is a tough one to call, but if Tua can Take Ernie's right hook i'd be inclined to go with him by KO, but has Tua been in with anyone who bangs like Shavers?

[The_Demon]

Id give Tua a shot against johnson but thats about it,he was a very tough fighter with knockout power but i just cant favour him over many legit all time greats,and lets be fair,he did lose too the best 3 guys he faced,and that has too be taken into consideration when talking about a monumental step-up in class like matching him with frazier,foreman etc

[Marchegiano]

I only have few points

A. In what ****ing world does my man, Sam Langford, not qualify as a Great in this Tua vs The Greats list?

B. Primo Carnera out weighed everyone. 88-14 is respectible, and 5 out of 14 is not a bad KO loss ratio either. However, Primo got knocked out by guys he out weighed by 50-60lbs.

C. Joe ****ing Louis? Are you ****ing ****ting me? I dissagree with quite a few of the Tua victories but Joe surprised me the most. It's always understandable when people crap on Marciano here cause most of you like pop shots and running backward (**** Ali) but wtf did Joe Louis struggle with? He was excellent every where. Ibeabuchi was good at every angle, Joe Louis was great at every angle. Tua's got nothing for Joe.