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1943 Middleweight tournament

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  • 1943 Middleweight tournament

    OK gents thought this might be a bit of fun. I’m of the opinion that the decade from the early 40s to the early 50s had the deepest pool of great middleweights in history.
    Unfortunately for one reason or another many fights that I would have loved to have happened didn’t so I’ve selected 16 fighters who fought at MW at around 1942/43 to take part in a tournament.
    Now before everyone jumps in and tells me that Charles was fighting at LHW or Robinson was fighting at WW at that time I would point out that Charles fought Burley at MW in 42 and Robinson like Zivic was fighting La Motta in 43.
    So a couple might be a stretch but not a leap and let’s be fair I’m pretty much ignoring a war here!

    Now the thing to remember is this is not an ATG tournament where we probably all automatically select Robinson, it is a tournament in 1943 so you may feel that Charles might be getting a little weight drained at MW or SRR is punching above his weight. Whilst you may well rate Archie Moore as a top 10 p4p ATG, would you rate him so high if his career ended as a middleweight in 43?
    You might not even rank Lloyd Marshall in your top 10 ATG MWs but might feel that in 43 he was the fighter at his peak and the man to beat.

    If I have forgotten or omitted a fighter you feel should be in the tournament I apologise, personally I would have loved to have squeezed Davie Sands in, but I have tried to pick fighters who would have been competitive if maybe a touch raw or past best. I’m not 100% happy with Zivic either but he always gave opponents a fight.
    On the other side of the coin you might feel that La Motta and Cerdan were probably more peak in 43 than when they actually did win the MW title.

    As regards the draw I have tried to pick matches where the fighters never fought, if nothing else it gives some opportunities (if only in our imagination) to the black murderers row they sadly missed out on.
    If anyone feels that I have missed an obvious contender or could do a better job of the draw then feel free to suggest an alternative.

  • #2
    Our fighters are:
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Ezzard Charles
    Charley Burley
    Jake La Motta
    Lloyd Marshall
    Rocky Graziano
    Tony Zale
    Marcel Cerdan
    Cocoa Kid
    Al Hostak
    George Abrams
    Jack Chase
    Fritzie Zivic
    Eddie Booker
    Holman Williams
    Archie Moore


    Round One

    A) Tony Zale v Cocoa Kid

    B) Lloyd Marshall v Fritzie Zivic

    C) Jake La Motta v Archie Moore

    D) Rocky Graziano v Eddie Booker

    E) Ezzard Charles v Holman Williams

    F) Marcel Cerdan v Jack Chase
    G) Sugar Ray Robinson v George Abrams

    H) Charley Burley v Al Hostak


    __________________________________________________ ________
    Quarter Finals

    1) Winner of fight A) v Winner of fight B)

    2) Winner of fight C) v Winner of fight D)

    3) Winner of fight E) v Winner of fight F)

    4) Winner of fight G) v Winner of fight H)

    __________________________________________________ _______
    Semi Finals

    I) Winner of fight 1) v Winner of fight 4)
    II) Winner of fight 2 v Winner of fight 2)

    __________________________________________________ ________

    The Final

    Comment


    • #3
      i like how you have pitched SRR in against Georgie Abrams in the opening round so as to try to get him eliminated lol

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
        i like how you have pitched SRR in against Georgie Abrams in the opening round so as to try to get him eliminated lol
        Not at all I have tried with the draw to put up fights i'd like to see and fights which never happened but i'd like to see. I'm a big fan of Archie Moore who gets a hard match against La Motta ditto Williams and Charles. But the draw or the fighters arn't set in stone if you fancy re-jigging it please do, I won't take offence.

        Who do you think will get eliminated btw?

        Comment


        • #5
          Excellent idea for a thread GLC

          I will post my picks when ive had the chance to have a think

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Surgeon View Post
            Excellent idea for a thread GLC

            I will post my picks when ive had the chance to have a think
            Thankyou, hopefully will be a little bit of fun.
            Like I said it's not set in stone so if I have forgotten someone obvious or anyone feels the draw could be fairer or more interesting then i'll not take my bat and ball home

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GJC View Post

              Round One

              A) Tony Zale v Cocoa Kid
              B) Lloyd Marshall v Fritzie Zivic
              C) Jake La Motta v Archie Moore
              D) Rocky Graziano v Eddie Booker
              E) Ezzard Charles v Holman Williams
              F) Marcel Cerdan v Jack Chase
              G) Sugar Ray Robinson v George Abrams
              H) Charley Burley v Al Hostak
              A) Zale ud Kid
              B) Zivic ud Marshall
              C) Moore ud Lamotta
              D) Graziano ko Booker
              E) Charles ko Williams
              F) Cerdan ko Chase
              G) Robinson ko Abrams
              H) Burley ud Hostak

              Zale ud Zivic
              Moore ko Graziano
              Charles ko Cerdan
              Robinson ud Burley

              Moore ud Zale
              Robinson sd Charles

              Robinson ud Moore


              Rockin'
              Last edited by Rockin'; 02-03-2011, 04:13 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Eddie Booker vs Graziano, I'm gonna pick Booker via UD or late KO, there's no footage available of him unfortunately but from what I've read and seen of his resume he was very capable, Graziano's chance to beat him would be via KO which imo isn't likely, Booker had a very solid chin and great defense and could brawl or outbox the best of them, he was the complete package, although, Booker was suffering badly with one of his eyes in 43' especially after he was involved in a fight earlier in which his opponent hid scissors inside his glove and cut him up pretty badly (Although still able to get some very good wins), because of that I would not count out Graziano's chances of late KO after Booker become more tired and his eye became a bigger problem because of Graziano's pressure / assault.

                The Booker win is much more likely though imo, Graziano hadn't faced anyone with the experience, savvy and just overall class of someone like Booker in 43' and inexperience would be his main downfall here against a seasoned Booker.


                Have only really thought about this fight so far, will get to the others later, one of my favourite eras , fun thread.
                Last edited by NChristo; 02-03-2011, 04:28 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rockin' View Post
                  A) Zale ud Kid
                  B) Zivic ud Marshall
                  C) Moore ud Lamotta
                  D) Graziano ko Booker
                  E) Charles ko Williams
                  F) Cerdan ko Chase
                  G) Robinson ko Abrams
                  H) Burley ud Hostak

                  Zale ud Zivic
                  Moore ko Graziano
                  Charles ko Cerdan
                  Robinson ud Burley

                  Moore ud Zale
                  Robinson sd Charles

                  Robinson ud Moore


                  Rockin'
                  Someone had to go 1st so brave man
                  You pretty much decimated the black murders row on round one so you might get a few disagreements there!
                  Hopefully this wont descend into the usual flame war and everyone respects each others opinion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rockin' View Post
                    A) Zale ud Kid
                    B) Zivic ud Marshall
                    C) Moore ud Lamotta
                    D) Graziano ko Booker
                    E) Charles ko Williams
                    F) Cerdan ko Chase
                    G) Robinson ko Abrams
                    H) Burley ud Hostak

                    Zale ud Zivic
                    Moore ko Graziano
                    Charles ko Cerdan
                    Robinson ud Burley

                    Moore ud Zale
                    Robinson sd Charles

                    Robinson ud Moore


                    Rockin'
                    Really? Booker was known to have an ATG chin and no one was able to knock him out, Moore couldn't do it what makes you think Graziano could? He'd also just turned pro in 1943 but I guess also Booker was past prime and impaired vision, well I guess its not that crazy now that I think about it.
                    Last edited by RubenSonny; 02-03-2011, 04:36 PM.

                    Comment

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