How Many Of You Rate, Louis Over Ali?

[Wild Blue Yonda]

This is incorrect; Ali fought 38 different fighters that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another in their career and Louis fought 43 different fighters that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another in their career. If we were to only count when the fighters were ranked in the Top 10 when Ali or Louis fought them, it would be in Ali's favour. Louis didn't defeat far more top fighters than Ali - considering how close their number of wins over top opponents is, now if we were to consider Ali's wins over Frazier, Liston & Foreman, the odds are stacked in Ali's favour.

...Until you remember Louis' dominance at the top of the division & his record-setting haul of title defenses & more than a decade in power bring it back closer some.

I agree overall Ali should get a close nod for achievements, but you have to also consider that while he did, in fairness, beat better rivals across the board, he didn't have Louis' long, unbroken iron-fist rule of his weightclass --- which just happens to be the best for any fighter, in any division, ever. Not too shabby.

[Tyson.]

I'm not sure anyone should have Louis too strenuously over Ali (or the reverse).

Ali fought and beat more top 10 contenders than Louis.

Ali beat better opposition as his era is regarded as the best in heavyweight history. Ali is the greatest and its not even close.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I wont argue with a pick for Louis but I dont think there is any doubt that Ali fought fought a higher level of competition. My pick is Ali.

Agreed plus the fact that Ali has beaten/knocked out several all time great heavies (Foreman, Frazier, Liston, Patterson). Hes beaten the two best punchers all time at heavyweight (while past his prime) stopped one of the greatest light heavies ect. Louis was great but i have Ali as a definite number 1.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

So all the Ali haters gone quiet no that they have been proved wrong with facts.

Ali>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Louis

Maybe they just rolled their eyes at your ignorance & moved on.

Just a hunch.

[RubenSonny]

The Bold; is fairly obvious and we can agree on that, so we can agree that Louis didn't defeat far more top opponents than Ali? Which is what you claimed.

Muhammad Ali

Alejandro Lavorante - No. 10
Archie Moore - No. 5
Doug Jones - No. 3
Henry Cooper - No. 9
Sonny Liston - World Heavyweight Champion
Sonny Liston - No. 1
Floyd Patterson - No. 1
George Chuvalo - No. 9
Henry Cooper - No. 4
Karl Mildenberger - No. 3
Cleveland Williams - No. 3
Ernie Terell - No. 1
Zora Folley - No. 2
Jerry Quarry - No. 1
Oscar Bonavena - No. 3
Joe Frazier - World Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
Jimmy Ellis - No. 7
Mac Foster - No. 6
Jerry Quarry - No.2
Floyd Patterson - No.3
Bob Foster - World Light-Heavyweight Champion
Joe Bugner - No. 8
Ken Norton - No. 9 - LOSS
Ken Norton - No. 2
Joe Frazier - No. 1
George Foreman - World Heavyweight Champion
Chuck Wepner - No. 9
Ron Lyle - No. 8
Joe Bugner - No. 4
Joe Frazier - No. 2
Jimmy Young - No. 3
Ken Norton - No. 2
Ernie Shavers - No. 5
Leon Spinks - No. 9 - LOSS
Leon Spinks - World Heavyweight Champion
Larry Holmes - Wolrd Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
Trevor Berbick - No.7 - LOSS

Overall Record vs Top 10 Rated Opponents (including Light-Heavyweight Champion): 32-5

Joe Louis

Lee Rampage - No. 10
Patsy Perroni - No. 6
Natie Brown - No. 10
Primo Carnera - No. 4
King Levinsky - No. 10
Max Baer - No. 1
Charley Retzlaff - No. 4
Max Schmeling - No. 2 - LOSS
Jack Sharkey - No. 4
Al Ettore - No. 3
James Braddock - World Champion
Tommy Farr - No. 3
Nathan Mann - No. 3
Max Schmeling - No. 1
John Henry Lewis - World Champion at Light-Heavyweight
Tony Galento - No. 3
Bob Pastor - No. 2
Johnny Paychek - No. 5
Arturo Godoy (2) - No. 1
Red Burman - No. 4
Buddy Baer - No. 5
Billy Conn - World Champion at Light-Heavyweight
Lou Nova - No. 1
Buddy Baer - No. 4
Abe Simon - No. 6
Billy Conn - No. 1
Tami Mauriello - No. 1
Jersey Joe Walcott - No. 1
Jersey Joe Walcott - No. 1
Ezzard Charles - World Champion - LOSS
Lee Savold - No. 4
Cesar Brion - No. 8
Rocky Marciano - No. 3 - LOSS

Overall record vs Top 10 Rated Opponents (including 2 light-heavyweight champs): 30-3


Based on these numbers, we can conclude that Joe Louis did NOT defeat far more top opponents than Ali.

Well, aside from a a few controversial decisions, given to both Ali & Louis, it's amazing to actually find out Ali did indeed defeat more top 10 ranked fighters (at the time they fought) than Louis. Beneath all the glitz and glamour of Ali's career, there is immense quality and a resume comparable to the likes of Robinson & Greb. I think this information may come as a surprise to some, who haven't researched it yet, partly because of Louis' record number of title defenses. Between his first loss and his win over Foreman, he went through a tear in the heavyweight Top 10 division, defeating 7 of the top dogs plus Bob Foster. A very, very, very awesome resume.

Just thought I'd bump this, great information from Irish lullaby, reading this when it was posted combined with something Poet said about Alis resume, has led me to agree with the bolded. Such a complete resume, I honestly don't think there are any that are outright better than it.

[Barn]

From the time I first posted here, my opinion has changed and I have Ali at number 1.

Ali also made something ridiculous like 19 title defences many being past prime wins after the draft. Although it's not consecutive defences, it's certainly something people forget and evens the score on consistency with Louis. His win over a prime George Foreman who is a bonafide top 10 Heavyweight beats any single win onn Louis' resume.

Head to Head I have to keep it equal though.

[GF of Boxing]

I can see either way. You have Joe Louis who stayed on top for so long for almost 12 years with 25 title defense which is unheard of by todays standard and probaly will never be match ever again. Then you have Ali who has fought the better competiton through out his entire career. His resume as a heavyweight will never be matched when it comes to qualitiy opponents. Plus he was the first fighter to win the the world title 3times. One the title from Liston who at the time was considered the baddest man on the planet. This was one of the biggest upsets in boxing history at the time. So from 1964-1967 firs title reign. Then the goverment took his title and way of life from him unjustly. Took his prime years from him. Comes back 3 1/2 years later not the same fighter. But the ability to adapt and over come adversity and his mental strength was uncompare. Had a couple of set backs. Then in 1974 he faced another opponent for the title who was once agian suppose to be the baddest man on the planet in George Foreman. Ali was suppose to be too old at the age of 32. Once again he shocks the world by stopping another man that suppose to be invincible. His reign as champion was from1974-1978. In 78' you can see then that Ali motor skills and speech has too a toll. He continues to fight again and underestimate his opponent in Leon Spinks. Ali came back a few months later and regain his title again for the third time. Held the title from 1978-80. Finally retires in 1981. Taking unneccesary punishment from Holmes and Berbick. I am a little bias towards Ali. But for 20 years the majority of his career he has faced top opposition, in their home country, and never had a rematch clause in his contract. For me I have to put Ali slightly ahead of Joe.

[kadyo's]

Do any of you actually belive Louis was a greater fighter than Ali and rate higher on a HW ATG List?

Iwas a big Ali fan during my teen age years. I was always talking about Ali prior to the thrilla in manila and my father must have noticed cause this is what he told me during that time. He told me, "there's a fighter better than Ali". So I asked "who?". He said, " his name is Joe Louis." He watched Joe Louis fights in threaters so I became curious. I found out he was beaten by max schemlling via 12th round KO but won the rematch by a 1st round TKO where Max managed to throw only 2 punches the entire round.

[IronDanHamza]

I do.

[RubenSonny]

I do.

My respect for Trojan > than my respect for you....