Hopkins and Hagler:Grading their wins over smaller opponents

[bojangles1987]

Hagler vs Hearns
Hagler vs Duran
Hopkins vs Oscar
Hopkins vs Tito

Are these A,B or C level wins? Please explain your reasoning

Hagler vs. Hearns: A level win. Not just because of the quality of fighter, but the way Hagler did it. Clear A level win.

Hagler vs. Duran: B level. Duran proved he could fight at middleweight, but there's no way I could call this an A level win. It may be a C level win, but I think higher of the way Duran fought than to degrade it like that.

Hopkins vs. Oscar: C- level win. Considering Oscar was coming off the Sturm fight, and had never proved himself as anything that good at middleweight, this was little more than a name on the resume that meant little. The KO keeps it from being a really low grade win for me.

Hopkins vs. Trinidad: The definition of an A grade win, and the best win of all four of these. Hopkins went into the ring with an undefeated monster everyone expected to win by knockout, and completely dismantled him.

[Toney616]

Eastman was a journeyman now, really? He was 32-0 and after losing to Joppy was 40-1 before losing again finally to Bernard Hopkins. Eastman was a very solid fighter in those days.

He lost every time he fought an opponent above class B- aka a Journeyman in my book

Joppy was also a solid fighter. I believe had about 8 or 9 total title defenses of his WBA Title or something like that.

He lost every time he fought an opponent above B level. I go by quality of opposition, not quantity

As for Trinidad not being able to compete at MW, ask yourself the question, if Hopkins didn't exist would anyone at that time have beaten Tito? No way, not even close.

I never said that, I said he could compete at mw.

Tito would have been the undisputed MW champ.

But it was a weak division so that doesn't mean much.

Anyways, I agree with blackirish on the rankings:

#1: Hagler-Hearns
#2: Hopkins-Trinidad
#3: Hagler-Duran
#4: Hopkins-DLH

I agree also

[Toney616]

Hopkins vs. Trinidad: The definition of an A grade win, and the best win of all four of these. Hopkins went into the ring with an undefeated monster everyone expected to win by knockout, and completely dismantled him.

I think Hearns going on to compete at mw, makes the Hagler win a bit better imo

[bojangles1987]

I think Hearns going on to compete at mw, makes the Hagler win a bit better imo

I can't claim to know, because I wasn't even alive then, but I doubt Hagler was half the underdog against Hearns that Hopkins was against Tito, which is why I think it's a better win. He also completely dismantled Trinidad, which I think is more impressive than Hagler bum rushing Hearns knowing he probably couldn't handle that type of fight very long.

Splitting hairs though, both are tremendous wins. Can't argue with someone saying one is better than the other.

[Toney616]

I can't claim to know, because I wasn't even alive then, but I doubt Hagler was half the underdog against Hearns that Hopkins was against Tito, which is why I think it's a better win.

Who exactly decides the betting odds? Is it just fans bets or do the experts play a deciding role in it?

[Barn]

Who exactly decides the betting odds? Is it just fans bets or do the experts play a deciding role in it?

Lots of things influence it. Say many fans bought coupons for Hagler then his odds would decrease, the media can also help, if someone reports Hagler was KO'd in sparring then you will get better odds on him etc. Expert Predictions could come into account as well.

[Toney616]

Lots of things influence it. Say many fans bought coupons for Hagler then his odds would decrease, the media can also help, if someone reports Hagler was KO'd in sparring then you will get better odds on him etc. Expert Predictions could come into account as well.

thanks for the info

[Steak]

I can't claim to know, because I wasn't even alive then, but I doubt Hagler was half the underdog against Hearns that Hopkins was against Tito, which is why I think it's a better win. He also completely dismantled Trinidad, which I think is more impressive than Hagler bum rushing Hearns knowing he probably couldn't handle that type of fight very long.

Splitting hairs though, both are tremendous wins. Can't argue with someone saying one is better than the other.

to be honest, the whole 'betting odds' thing doesnt always mean a lot.

I think it was more of people not respecting Hopkins than over-respecting Trinidad. Which indirectly speaks of the quality of the Middleweight division Hopkins was in...although to be fair, the middleweight division had been crap for a while, and still is today(although there are several good prospects on the horizon).
but also it had to do with fanbase. Trinidad always got way more publicity than Hopkins, since Puerto Ricans loved him. not to mention his style was much more exciting and eye catching.
People will often place bets on who wins more impressively, and sometimes overlook skill and stylistic matchups.

If were talking straight up wins at Middleweight, Hagler completly eclipses Hopkins, both in number of top guys beat and the quality of them.
Its Hopkins' 40+ record that makes him truly special.