John L. Sullivan vs Charley Mitchell march 1888

[Frédéric]

Hi everybody,

i am not a specialist in boxing, i am a french local historian. I live in Chantilly / Gouvieux (the city of horse racing in France - 50 km north of Paris).
I read few days ago about a boxing match between John L. Sullivan vs Charley Mitchell in march 1888. This one took place in Gouvieux/Chantilly in the park of the Baron de Rothschild.

After i discovered this fight, i searched on google and found little things about it, but maybe you, members of this forum and specialist of the boxe could help me to find more about this fight.

So, have you document about the fight John L. Sullivan vs Charley Mitchell (march 1888) who could help me to know more about it ? (photo ? newpapers ? ...)

I saw these books on google :

1: Boxiana Review #8 1972 - (John L. Sullivan on Cover)
(w.boxingtreasures.com/boxiana-review-8-1972--john-l-sullivan-on-.html)

this one is too old to found it in France. Has someone got this book and could tell me if there is some text or document about the fight ? If yes, is it possible to have a scan ?

and

2 : John L. Sullivan: The Career of the First Gloved Heavyweight Champion Par Adam J. Pollack

I did not find this one in France, if some one could scan me the page 149 - 151 - 156 it wold be fantastic and helpful.

Thank you in advance for your help, sorry for my bad English writing.

Best regards
Fred - from France

[Spartacus Sully]

Hi everybody,

i am not a specialist in boxing, i am a french local historian. I live in Chantilly / Gouvieux (the city of horse racing in France - 50 km north of Paris).
I read few days ago about a boxing match between John L. Sullivan vs Charley Mitchell in march 1888. This one took place in Gouvieux/Chantilly in the park of the Baron de Rothschild.

After i discovered this fight, i searched on google and found little things about it, but maybe you, members of this forum and specialist of the boxe could help me to find more about this fight.

So, have you document about the fight John L. Sullivan vs Charley Mitchell (march 1888) who could help me to know more about it ? (photo ? newpapers ? ...)

I saw these books on google :

1: Boxiana Review #8 1972 - (John L. Sullivan on Cover)
(w.boxingtreasures.com/boxiana-review-8-1972--john-l-sullivan-on-.html)

this one is too old to found it in France. Has someone got this book and could tell me if there is some text or document about the fight ? If yes, is it possible to have a scan ?

and

2 : John L. Sullivan: The Career of the First Gloved Heavyweight Champion Par Adam J. Pollack

I did not find this one in France, if some one could scan me the page 149 - 151 - 156 it wold be fantastic and helpful.

Thank you in advance for your help, sorry for my bad English writing.

Best regards
Fred - from France

http://books.google.com/books?id=D_I...tchell&f=false

chapter X page 197 is a good place to start.

[JAB5239]

http://www.antekprizering.com/mitche...vancf7011.html

http://www.aldenboxing.com/john_l__sullivan.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charley_Mitchell

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:69211

Best I can do. In all honest I know nothing of the fight.

[Panzer]

I believe there is something about this in the book Bare Fists aswell. Mitchell was imprisoned after the fight if i remember correctly

[Frédéric]

chapter X page 197 is a good place to start.

thank you Spartacus for your answer, but i could not see the page 197 of this book on google book. Maybe i don't know how to use it, but it seems that it is impossible to have a view for this book ?

Thanks for the photos you post.

[Frédéric]

Thank you all for your answers.

I found some magazine with superb covers :The Ring Magazine.

Does anybody have one of this book and could tell me if in one thses, there is texte about the fight between Sullivan and Mitchell.
If i have to buy them, i want to know if there is texte or just the cover.

there are here (i could not post links) : //ma-mags.com/srchmag.php?SrchFor=%20Charley%20Mitchell&SrchHow=all&Search=search

Thanks for helping the frenchie ! :-)

[Spartacus Sully]

thank you Spartacus for your answer, but i could not see the page 197 of this book on google book. Maybe i don't know how to use it, but it seems that it is impossible to have a view for this book ?

Thanks for the photos you post.

BATTLES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ATLANTIC.

With Sprinter Mitchell In France—He Turns The Match Into A Race — Arrest And Escape — Home Again — Hearty RecepTion In Boston — A Dreadful Sickness — Challenge Accepted To Fight Kilrain For The Championship- An Old-fashioned Victory — Kilrain Vainly Vils With The Sprinter — Pursuit And Prosecution By The Governor Of Mississippi—Enormous Legal Costs — First Appearance As An Actor.

HILE Sullivan was winning golden opinions in England, starring the provinces, Mitchell," says a newspaper correspondent, "was snarling out challenges to him by the dozen. The big 'un pays just as much attention to them as the great mastiff in Landscer's picture of ' Dignity and Impudence' does to the little cur tha': is barking around him."

Perhaps it would be better if I had continued this course, but I was led into a match to fight the bombastic sprinter boxer, foolishly giving away everything in the match in his favor.

On Nov. 29 I met Mitchell at a well-known sporting resort, and signed articles for a fight for five hundred pounds, under London prize-ring rules, and in a twentyfour-foot ring. Neither the time nor the place of meeting were mentioned in the articles signed. They were to be arranged between the seconds, namely, Phillips for me and Pony Moore for Mitchell. Among those present at the time were Mr. Allison, the editor of the Sportsman, and Messrs. Harding, Bennet, and Morton, American sporting men. After H. Bull, the well-known bookmaker of Newmarket, had been chosen as stakeholder, the drawing-up of the articles began, which, even under the skilful treatment of Allison, was no easy matter. Mitchell disputed every article, and the transaction took three hours. When he came into the room where I was sitting, he turned around to his train of friends and followers, and said : — "Now, boys, I have got him."

I only laughed. One by one the articles were agreed to, I giving away every point without demur until it came to the size of the ring.

"It must be a twenty-four-foot ring," insisted Mitchell, who saw in this a loophole to get out of the match.

"You are not signing for a foot-race, Mitchell," said Phillips.

"And I am not a sprinter," remarked Sullivan.

Mitchell insisted, however, and just as he thought the contest spent on the rock of contention, I said: —

"All right, my boy, let it be a twenty-four-foot ring. You 'll find even that too small to skulk in when the day comes."

Mitchell's countenance darkened. Then I insisted that the liberty of choice of time and place given the seconds should be limited by two conditions: that the contest must come off within one thousand miles of London, and not clash with any of my previous engagements.

"I had to do this," I said, " because when the time came Mitchell would insist on fighting in China."

During the whole two hours, Mitchell had been taunting me in the most outrageous manner. Finally he called me a dirty rogue. I sprang to my feet, and this time my blood was up.

"Come on, you young whelp. I have two carriages down stairs. You get in one and I will take the other and we 'll drive to the nearest vacant space, and there I 'll knock your head off."

Mitchell smiled sickly and followed me a little way towards the door. Then Allison interposed and I was hurried away. I left, saying, —

"All right, I will wait until I meet him; but when I do, I 'll give it to him all the worse for waiting."

The fight took place on Baron Rothschild's grounds at Chantilly, March i0, i888.

I wanted to fight this sprinter in a sixteen-foot ring, knowing well that his tactics in a twenty-four-foot ring would be to run around or to lie down, which he did at every opportunity afforded him in the fight. I wished to prevent this cowardly and unfair business. It is a well-known and established fact that in all my career as a boxer or fighter, I have always fought my opponent manfully and fairly. In this fight with Mitchell I was fouled a number of times by being ****ed repeatedly by Mitchell. Of this the referees seemed to take no notice.

One of the witnesses of the fight was Pony Moore, Mitchell's father-in-law, who stood with a face puckered with anxiety and nervousness.

When I got my right across and Charley dropped, Pony cried, " There goes my boy."

Knock-down blow the second brought forth, —

"There goes my house."

And when for the third time Charley was floored, "Pony," in an agony, exclaimed, " and there goes the estate and everything."

For the first four rounds it looked odds—as Baldock has since said, long odds — on the "big fellow."

In the fifth round, when I was swinging the right, T caught Mitchell at the back of the head and severely bruised the muscles of the right arm. Still Mitchell seemed afraid to stand up to the fight. In the tenth round, when he was continuing his tactics, I said in disgust, " Oh, don't run around the ring."

"First blood " to Mitchell was claimed in round eight, to which I replied, " You can have it." He said, " Well, there is nothing in it but to decide a bet."

Running and dropping was his game, and to such an extent did he practise the former that, when the fight was over, a track like a sheep run was to be noticed all around the ring. Once he dropped without a blow and received a caution, and after this he went down a number of times for a mere tap.

Had I desired to practise the tricks of the London prize-ring rules I had good opportunities to do so by giving my weight to Mitchell; but I tried my best to avoid falling on him. Mitchell adopted a saving game throughout.

Before starting he had admitted having a great task before him, and when he went into the ring he did not go to win my five hundred pounds, but to save his own, which, thanks to the big ring, the weather and my accident, he succeeded in doing.

In this fight I was unfortunately in the worst corner where the rain beat incessantly in my face and body, causing me to become chilled, and I refused numerous times to partake of any brandy which my seconds insisted upon my taking.

The termination of the fight was brought about by Mitchell's second, Jack Baldock, who stepped into the ring and said, " Shake hands and call it a draw." I said, "Let us fight a couple more rounds," but everybody said "No." Mitchell and I then retired from the ring.

On the road, while retiring from the scene of the fight, we were arrested by gendarmes who pointed revolvers at our heads. We were taken to a place called Senlis where we were brought before a tribunal, and the gendarmes gave in their charges against us.

The outcome of this episode was that we were locked up from seven o'clock Saturday evening until one o'clock Sunday before the French authorities would accept bonds for our release. Being satisfied that we would appear in court the next day, they admitted Mitchell and myself to bonds. After our release we

http://books.google.com/books?prints...=text&pg=PA197

[Spartacus Sully]

both met our friends, who fortunately had not been locked up, going to a hotel across the road, and the party, consisting of a dozen Americans, Englishmen, and Frenchmen, sat down to a sumptuous breakfast. The party included Harry Phillips, Jake Barnett, Edward Holske, William O'Brien, "Pony" Moors., Jake Baldock, Kilrain, Mitchell, and myself.

Only a few in the party knew that I did not intend to stand trial, having already made up my mind to leave Senlis by the first train for Paris, and then to go by way of Calais to England. When the officials came to suspect my intentions they increased our bonds from eight hundred dollars to sixteen hundred each.

My reason for not appearing in court or wishing to stand trial was that, some two months before this event, Kilrain and Smith (Jem Smith, then champion of England) fought in France, and during the battle a gentleman named McNeil, who had gone over to see their fight, and to do the reporting for the Sportsman of London, lost his life by either falling overboard or being foully dealt with. The facts have never been found out. The English press dealt very severely with the French authorities for not investigating the case of this wellknown sporting writer. This being so, I did not wish to stand trial, as I was afraid that I would be dealt severely with for coming over into their country, or, to use a technical phrase in pugilism, trying to "pull off this fight" there Therefore, I took the boat at Calais to Dover, and arrived in London, England, the following morning.

From London I went to Liverpool, and stopped with a friend of mine, Arthur Magnus, who had accompanied me home and had been a witness of the fight,—if fight it could be termed. The following morning the papers contained an account of my trial. My sentence was three days in a French prison and two thousand francs fine.

"Tell me," said a reporter interviewing Mr. Magnus after our return to England, "whether the arrangements for the combat were satisfactory."

"Yes, they were good, with the exception of the backwardness of the Mitchell party in selecting the ground, as agreed upon."

"Was Mitchell careless about his movements in France?"

"I should think he was, — the most careless man I ever saw. In Amiens, he walked from day to day all over the town without any attempt at concealment, as if he didn't care whether the police got 'wind of it' or not.

"Yes, the fight, as you say, was a walking tournament the greater part of the time. Mitchell did not face Sullivan as he ought to have done. He danced continually around the ring. This, of course, must have been his plan; there can be no doubt about it.

"In the fifth round Sullivan disabled his hand with a blow at Mitchell's head. Only the round before this, Mitchell was knocked down and completely dazed by one of the champion's right-handers. So I leave you to judge what a mishap it was to Sullivan to be compelled to fight practically with one arm."

"Could Mitchell have tired out his opponent with his tactics?"

"I honestly believe he could n't. His blows were not strong enough to tire any one out, and even in his disabled state Sullivan could have kept it up as long as Mitchell."

My fight with Mitchell was the last event of any note in my first trip to foreign countries. I embarked on the twelfth day of April on the steamship " Catalonia," for Boston, arriving after fourteen days' sail, and meeting with a grand ovation from my friends, who came down the harbor to welcome me home.

http://books.google.com/books?id=D_I...put=text#c_top

[Frédéric]

Thanks for sharing Spartacus.

On my side of The Atlantic :-D ... i really could not see this text with the link you gave me. So, many thanks.

Since two days , i looked every where on google and i begin to find very interesting text about his fight.

Concerning the town where the fight took place, i could tell you that it didn't take place in Chantilly but in Gouvieux (a neighboor town) where the baron de Rothschild have his estate (the castle of Fontaine : //mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/8684974.jpg)

best regards

Fred

[Spartacus Sully]

Thanks for sharing Spartacus.

On my side of The Atlantic :-D ... i really could not see this text with the link you gave me. So, many thanks.

Since two days , i looked every where on google and i begin to find very interesting text about his fight.

Concerning the town where the fight took place, i could tell you that it didn't take place in Chantilly but in Gouvieux (a neighboor town) where the baron de Rothschild have his estate (the castle of Fontaine : //mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/8684974.jpg)

best regards

Fred

i belive its this the chateau de ferrieres where the rothchilds set up their horse racinng stables and which is also close to chantilli that the fight took place at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A...Ferri%C3%A8res