Apart from Ali, who else do you think could beat Sonny Liston.

[joseph5620]

I remember going to see that fight on closed circuit TV when I was still a teenager. It really changed the course of boxing. Going on the only two heavyweights that mattered were Frazier and Ali. It was shocking to watch. All of the sudden it was a whole new ballgame in the division.

But looking at it in retrospect, Frazier was soft going in. His peak was the first Ali fight and it was steadily downhill for him after that. I'm not looking at his record, but the only impressive win that I remember him having after Ali 1 was the Quarry rematch.

Scott, how much anticipation was there for Frazier-Ali 2? Considering both were no longer undefeated or champion. I also agree with you that Frazier never seemed quite the same after that first fight with Ali.

[Scott9945]

Scott, how much anticipation was there for Frazier-Ali 2? Considering both were no longer undefeated or champion. I also agree with you that Frazier never seemed quite the same after that first fight with Ali.

Not even a fraction of how much there was for the first fight. The fight itself was a dud too, with help from a terrible referee who allowed Ali to hold excessively. The buzz for their first fight was bigger than their other two combined.

[irishdude]

A prime Liston VS prime Frazier is a draw IMO. Frazier would keep coming forward, bobbing a weaving, I can't see Listons jab hurting Fraziers mobile head. When Frazier catches Liston with a clean left hook, Liston would never have felt anything like that before. But I feel Listons power will get him places, and he took Cleveland Williams best shots before aswell.

I can see Foreman beating him. If they were to fight, it would be a slugfest, and I don't think anyone beats Foreman in a slugfest. Though if Liston takes a different plan and stays on the outside with the jab, he can hit Foremans immobile head. Before Ali-Liston 2, Liston was never down and Foreman was only ever down twice in 80 fights, hard to decide!

Liston-Holyfield would be a great fight IMO, can't split the two.

[IRISH LULLABY]

A prime Liston VS prime Frazier is a draw IMO. Frazier would keep coming forward, bobbing a weaving, I can't see Listons jab hurting Fraziers mobile head. When Frazier catches Liston with a clean left hook, Liston would never have felt anything like that before. But I feel Listons power will get him places, and he took Cleveland Williams best shots before aswell.

I disagree, Frazier's chin failed to keep him up against the dynamite punching George Foreman, and by all accounts Liston is just a big a puncher - Liston is a much better boxer than Foreman, has the much superior jab and throws devastating bombs of his own - Frazier only knows how to fight one way, that's coming foward, smokin', bobbing and weaving - that's a terrible style match-up.

Personally, I see Liston stopping Frazier within 3 rounds.

[sonnyboyx2]

I disagree, Frazier's chin failed to keep him up against the dynamite punching George Foreman, and by all accounts Liston is just a big a puncher - Liston is a much better boxer than Foreman, has the much superior jab and throws devastating bombs of his own - Frazier only knows how to fight one way, that's coming foward, smokin', bobbing and weaving - that's a terrible style match-up.

Personally, I see Liston stopping Frazier within 3 rounds.

Frazier showed an "incredible chin" against Foreman who actually lifted Frazier off the canvas with a punch yet Frazier was up and ready to go when Arthur Mercante stopped the fight, so compared to Moorer, Norton, Cooney & Lyle who Foreman KOd then Frazier's chin was incredible

[Canelo Phresh]

joe frazier! just as easy to.

[bojangles1987]

I remember going to see that fight on closed circuit TV when I was still a teenager. It really changed the course of boxing. Going on the only two heavyweights that mattered were Frazier and Ali. It was shocking to watch. All of the sudden it was a whole new ballgame in the division.

But looking at it in retrospect, Frazier was soft going in. His peak was the first Ali fight and it was steadily downhill for him after that. I'm not looking at his record, but the only impressive win that I remember him having after Ali 1 was the Quarry rematch.

I know he always had problems with his eye, but wasn't it around the time of the first Ali fight and the Foreman fight that it got worse?

[bojangles1987]

I disagree, Frazier's chin failed to keep him up against the dynamite punching George Foreman, and by all accounts Liston is just a big a puncher - Liston is a much better boxer than Foreman, has the much superior jab and throws devastating bombs of his own - Frazier only knows how to fight one way, that's coming foward, smokin', bobbing and weaving - that's a terrible style match-up.

Personally, I see Liston stopping Frazier within 3 rounds.

You're overrating Liston's power a little, and underrating Frazier's chin. Liston did not hit as hard as Foreman, and a big reason Foreman was so horrible for Frazier was how much of a brute strength he had in those clubbing punches. Against a more conventional boxer, with less power, there's no way Frazier gets stopped in 3, and he would have every chance of beating Liston.

[Barn]

I know he always had problems with his eye, but wasn't it around the time of the first Ali fight and the Foreman fight that it got worse?

Yes, it started to deteroirate after Ali I and by the time he was in Ali 3 he was dodgeing eye tests because, he was legally blind in one eye which in Philly makes him unable to drive at night.

[SBleeder]

You're overrating Liston's power a little, and underrating Frazier's chin. Liston did not hit as hard as Foreman, and a big reason Foreman was so horrible for Frazier was how much of a brute strength he had in those clubbing punches. Against a more conventional boxer, with less power, there's no way Frazier gets stopped in 3, and he would have every chance of beating Liston.

I would wager good money that Liston had substantially harder than Foreman.