Freddie Roach ''Ruben Olivares Is The Greatest Mexican Fighter Of All Time''

[StarshipTrooper]

I can't see JC losing to guys like Junior Jones twice

I can. Especially if there's no Don King handpicked picked referee to pull his raisins out of the bran. Take away the protection he got as Don King's mealticket and all Chavez is is an Arturo Gatti with a better chin and a weaker punch. Not to mention his record has more padding than a flat-chested 17 year old on prom night.

Poet

[1SILVA]

I gotta roll with SC on this, JCC has the more impressive wins and longevity. Had Sanchez lived.....who knows?

Jab, while Chavez did defeat many world class fighters, he didn't defeat two better fighters than Azumah Nelson and Wilfredo Gomez. The best fighters Chavez defeated,Taylor, Rosario and Camacho, did not have the career or standing as Gomez and Nelson. Head to head, Sanchez would have defeated JCC had he not died so young.

[JAB5239]

Jab, while Chavez did defeat many world class fighters, he didn't defeat two better fighters than Azumah Nelson and Wilfredo Gomez. The best fighters Chavez defeated,Taylor, Rosario and Camacho, did not have the career or standing as Gomez and Nelson. Head to head, Sanchez would have defeated JCC had he not died so young.

While you can make a case Sanchez MAY have been greater had he lived I don't think one can be made with the way things are. Head to head would be an interesting fight. I don't think Sanchez beating Chavez is a gimme had he lived, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out either.

[jrosales13]

I can. Especially if there's no Don King handpicked picked referee to pull his raisins out of the bran. Take away the protection he got as Don King's mealticket and all Chavez is is an Arturo Gatti with a better chin and a weaker punch. Not to mention his record has more padding than a flat-chested 17 year old on prom night.

Poet

No, just no...

[StarshipTrooper]

No, just no...

Yes, just yes.....Chavez was a crude face first brawler who'd never have gotten a sniff at 100-0 if he hadn't been Don King's post Tyson mealticket.

Poet

[HaglerSteelChin]

I do think the WBC, Sulliaman, and Don King have helped Chavez. But i feel that his great career has mitigated some of those gift or questionable decisions. In over 100 fights there are about 7 questionable fights for JC.

1)The early DQ loss :was actually on his record, i have an Network broadcast(probably NBC where the loss is listed on his record). The commission would than change the ruling, and one of the members associated were part of the JC managment or camp. From recollection, the DQ was hitting after the bell & knocking the guy out, some people who saw it was simultaneous with the bell.

2)Laporte fight: Saw again recently, some as Ted Sares felt Laporte won, and the announcer Sheridan thought it was draw. JC could have loss another point for low blows, after seeing it again, I think JC did enough to retain his title, but a few rounds could have gone either way.

3)Whitaker: Few would argue that this was a great robbery. BTW, JC had his fair share of low blows in this fight, so the low blows is an excuse.

4)Randall 2: Randall was getting close to being the first to KO Chavez. He is winning by enough points even after the premature stoppage, yet Randall had point deduction and JC regained his title by getting a mickey mouse cut. Also remember Randall barely won the first fight, although it appeared he was atleast 3 points ahead, so it seemed there was an effort to keep his perfect record.

5) Gonzalez: I felt Miguel Angel Gonzalez won, but the fight was scored a draw, not the worse but certainly a questionable decision.

6)Kamau: Haven't seen this fight in a while. But Kamau was undefeated at the time, and there many who felt Kamau won.

7)Taylor 1: Okay many feel that Richard Steele should have let the fight continue with 2 seconds left with Taylor ahead on the cards. Taylor never responded well, & the ref is not a timekeeper, controversial decision, but a ref will get criticized either way. Imagine if JC connects one more power shot? Than Steele would get heat for allowing the fight to continue when a fighter fails to respond.


All that being said, i still rate JC high due to his 25 or so title defenses and overall accomplishments, but his career does have it's share of controversies.

[StarshipTrooper]

Imagine if JC connects one more power shot? Than Steele would get heat for allowing the fight to continue when a fighter fails to respond.

Two seconds isn't enough time for Chavez to get across the ring let alone get across the ring AND throw a punch. As it stands, Steele damn well new there wasn't time as they ****** on the ring edge when 10 seconds are left PRECISELY to alert the referee that the round is about to end. Two choices here: Either Steele was utterly incompetant or utterly corrupt.....since this is boxing and Don King is involved the latter choice is by FAR the most probable.

PS. The Whitaker fight WAS a robbery. That fight was NOT close by any stretch of the imagination.

Poet

[HaglerSteelChin]

Two seconds isn't enough time for Chavez to get across the ring let alone get across the ring AND throw a punch. As it stands, Steele damn well new there wasn't time as they ****** on the ring edge when 10 seconds are left PRECISELY to alert the referee that the round is about to end. Two choices here: Either Steele was utterly incompetant or utterly corrupt.....since this is boxing and Don King is involved the latter choice is by FAR the most probable.

PS. The Whitaker fight WAS a robbery. That fight was NOT close by any stretch of the imagination.

Poet

Yes Whitaker was a great robbery, that i was meant to say, just needed to add word "not".

The thing about the neutral corner rule is that some fighters don't even obey it properly. A recent example is Mayorga-Mosley, there is NO WAY that Mosley had enough time to KO Mayorga. Yet he got out of his corner too fast and KO Mayorga with one second exactly left the offiical KO Time 2:59 Round 12.

Steele did get heat after that fight. He claimed he didn't know the proper time and is not a timekeeper. So maybe he didn't know if there was 4 or 5 seconds left instead of 2? It was an unfortunate incident, MT looked at his corner instead of looking at steele, and Steele was always traumatized by the Mancini-Kim fight, since he was good friends with Referee Green who committed suicide a year after that fight.

[Scott9945]

Two seconds isn't enough time for Chavez to get across the ring let alone get across the ring AND throw a punch. As it stands, Steele damn well new there wasn't time as they ****** on the ring edge when 10 seconds are left PRECISELY to alert the referee that the round is about to end. Two choices here: Either Steele was utterly incompetant or utterly corrupt.....since this is boxing and Don King is involved the latter choice is by FAR the most probable.

PS. The Whitaker fight WAS a robbery. That fight was NOT close by any stretch of the imagination.

Poet

Steele was a crook who was in Don King's pocket. That stoppage was disgraceful. Chavez wasn't anywhere near a neutral corner so there is no chance Taylor could have been hit again if Steele made JCC go back to the corner as the rules dictate. For those who think that Steele was just protecting the fighter, go watch Barkley-Hearns I. When Hearns got up his legs were wobbling terribly. Steele didn't even ask him if he was ok and seconds later Barkley scored the KO over his helpless opponent.

My point is, Richard Steele was all about protecting the house fighter. And that is giving him the benefit of the doubt. Boxing is better off without him.

[StarshipTrooper]

Steele was a crook who was in Don King's pocket. That stoppage was disgraceful. Chavez wasn't anywhere near a neutral corner so there is no chance Taylor could have been hit again if Steele made JCC go back to the corner as the rules dictate. For those who think that Steele was just protecting the fighter, go watch Barkley-Hearns I. When Hearns got up his legs were wobbling terribly. Steele didn't even ask him if he was ok and seconds later Barkley scored the KO over his helpless opponent.

My point is, Richard Steele was all about protecting the house fighter. And that is giving him the benefit of the doubt. Boxing is better off without him.

Too bloody right.