Calling Larry Holmes A Greater HW Than Jack Dempsey?

[mrboxer]

what if Holmes was fighting Nick Furlano?

i think you have furlano confused with someone else furlano went the distance[15 rounds]with pryor ,i think holmes would easily dismantle any heavyweight from the 50s down fighting only with his left hand using jabs and hooks and uppercuts

[sonnyboyx2]

i think you have furlano confused with someone else furlano went the distance[15 rounds]with pryor ,i think holmes would easily dismantle any heavyweight from the 50s down fighting only with his left hand using jabs and hooks and uppercuts

i can recall awhile back and the claims you made about Furlano

[StarshipTrooper]

Actually Schmelling was pretty good at heavy. He was world champ, and is ranked in the top 30 by all historians that I know of. He was ranked in the top 10 pre 1960 pretty regularly. Scmelling was a very good heavyweight, no two ways about it. His rankings even now bear that out.

I am noy saying Shavers or Norton were not good. Norton was pretty good, but the time he fought Holmes he lost his appetite for boxing. Shavers was a good win fine. But based on this win, should he rank far above Dempsey and a host of other ATGs who faced similar competition.

I agree Schmeling was a very good Heavyweight.....just not an ATG. Just as Norton was a very good but not ATG Heavyweight. I would consider both to be "near-greats" rather than greats.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Of course Flynn KO'd Dempsey, considering the circumstances Dempsey went into fight him, I doubt Holmes would have even stood upto fight.

Sure Norton is better than Willard. Dempsey did beat Sharkey who was pretty good too. He does rank in top 30 most of the time. Don't think thats very one way though. Considering the inexperinced guys Holmes fought and the trouble he had with them, I can easily say that Holmes was not a demon in there too.

I have no problem if you rate Holmes higher, I am no Demopsey apologist firstly but if they are wrong supporting jack , then so are you putting a selective list of fighters, and quoting a loss of man which was viewed with su****ion back then, and also of a man who was clearly underfed, if not starving going into a fight.

Jack's level of competition is not far away from Holmes. Atleast not so much as some fans like to make out, to show Holmes in better light.

I think we're probably closer in our views than first glance might indicate. I can argue both sides of this matchup and have them ranked so close to each other that I think a good case can be made for either fighter. Where I start to have issues is when posters start making out that one was light-years better than the other and I've seen posts like that made in this thread for both. Usually it's posters who simply don't rate Dempsey or don't rate Holmes for whatever reasons.

In the case of not rating Dempsey (or any fighter from that era or earlier) I think there's a general lack of understanding of the culture that he fought in and I may touch on that a little later: I'm taking my finacee to lunch for her birthday in an hour and don't have time ATM to go into it. Hopefully I'll have time between getting back from lunch and the time I have to leave to go see the hockey game this evening.

Poet

[joseph5620]

Of course Flynn KO'd Dempsey, considering the circumstances Dempsey went into fight him, I doubt Holmes would have even stood upto fight.
Sure Norton is better than Willard. Dempsey did beat Sharkey who was pretty good too. He does rank in top 30 most of the time. Don't think thats very one way though. Considering the inexperinced guys Holmes fought and the trouble he had with them, I can easily say that Holmes was not a demon in there too.

I have no problem if you rate Holmes higher, I am no Demopsey apologist firstly but if they are wrong supporting jack , then so are you putting a selective list of fighters, and quoting a loss of man which was viewed with su****ion back then, and also of a man who was clearly underfed, if not starving going into a fight.



Jack's level of competition is not far away from Holmes. Atleast not so much as some fans like to make out, to show Holmes in better light.

This is what I'm talking about. You seem to come up with all kinds of excuses for Dempseys losses or bad performances like most Dempsey apologist do. But you're quick to point it out with Holmes. The fact is, Flynn wasn't good enough to be Holmes sparring partner and holmes would have never lost to him.

The difference is Holmes was beating those "inexperienced" fighters while Dempsey was struggling with and losing to fighters like Willie Meehan. You really have no case on paper or otherwise to rate Dempsey higher.

[young_robbed]

I have holmes #3 ahead of Dempsey and Ali and Louis are 1 and 2.
I can't see Dempsey beating him and to me holmes has a better set of wins

[sonnyboyx2]

This is what I'm talking about. You seem to come up with all kinds of excuses for Dempseys losses or bad performances like most Dempsey apologist do. But you're quick to point it out with Holmes. The fact is, Flynn wasn't good enough to be Holmes sparring partner and holmes would have never lost to him.

The difference is Holmes was beating those "inexperienced" fighters while Dempsey was struggling with and losing to fighters like Willie Meehan. You really have no case on paper or otherwise to rate Dempsey higher.

What excuses are you talking about for Dempsey?
Dempsey's loss to Willie Meehan was a 4rd "Paper Decision"...

Dempseys loss to Fireman Jim Flynn is below:

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...im+flynn&hl=en

[SNVDoublePunch!]

Please throw up and don't do it on yourself. cheers buddy

Done. Although I did throw up on myself slightly. Not an embarrassing amount, mind you.

[joseph5620]

What excuses are you talking about for Dempsey?
Dempsey's loss to Willie Meehan was a 4rd "Paper Decision"...

Dempseys loss to Fireman Jim Flynn is below:

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...im+flynn&hl=en

Dempsey fought Meehan about 5 times from what I remember. At least 2 were draws and one was a loss. And don't pretend like Meehan was some world beater either. If Lennox Lewis lost to a fighter like that I'm sure you would point it out. And you can make all the excuses you want for the Flynn loss. It still goes on his record as a KO loss.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore but I actually am surprised anyone with any kind of boxing knowledge would ever rate Dempsey over Holmes. Holmes was an amazing boxer and had the power to keep Dempsey from trying to over run him. Dempsey was like a good tough man contestant, never even fought the best black fighters of his day. Exciting fighter but way over rated. And there's people that think Marciano would have beat Tyson. lol I'd say compare Marciano to Demsey, thats a tough one.