Floyd Mayweather Jr. on an all-time level

[StarshipTrooper]

I thought Ali beat Frazier in their first fight so I actually give him credit for it.

As for Leonard, I don't count that performance towards his standing as a fighter. I think it showed that he had a fighting spirit and it definitely counts towards his character. But not his standing. The same could be said of Frazier, regarding the Ali fights.

I had the first Ali-Frazier first even after 12 with Frazier sweeping the last 3 rounds for the win. That being said I still give Ali credit for a terrific performance that would have beaten any other Heavyweight in the world that night. By the same token Leonard's performance in Montreal would have beaten any other Welterweight in the world.....just not Duran that night.

Poet

[TBear]

I had the first Ali-Frazier first even after 12 with Frazier sweeping the last 3 rounds for the win. That being said I still give Ali credit for a terrific performance that would have beaten any other Heavyweight in the world that night. By the same token Leonard's performance in Montreal would have beaten any other Welterweight in the world.....just not Duran that night.

Poet

I can agree, especially with the part about Leonard-Duran.

And one thing great about the History section is when a member brings up Mayweather's place in history, which I do not think is that good, we find ourselfs discussing Ali, Frazier and Leonard.

[paulsinghnl]

You two under rate Floyd's resume. And context is important here. You don't compare his resume to people that get beat. You compare it to people that didn't. Floyd by far has the best undefeated resume of all time. It's not remotely debatable.

you can't dismiss a fighter just because he's lost. a fighter should be rated on how he held up within the fight. Ali - Frazier III, i still can't tell you who won that fight really. they both fought teeth and nail. fought their ass off.

you're rated as a fighter by how you stood up against your opposition, it's not as easy as "Oh, you won.. Oh, you lost". if you look at it like that, the all time p4p would look very differently, with Joe Calzaghe and Rocky Marciano somewhere near the top and Sugar Ray Robinson considerably lower by losing fights (which he all avenged).

do you honestly think that Mayweather is better than Robinson, just by comparing stats like that?

[paulsinghnl]

as he was moving up in weight, he seemed less unbeatable, particulalry from 147-154

most top welterweights in history would beat him, but this is not his prime weight, so this is not saying much

I think Floyd could have beaten virtually anyone in history at 130 lbs

virtually beating anyone isn't the same as actually beating anyone. you get judged on who you actually beat and how you beat them. for instance, mayweather is greater in my eyes after fighting Mosley and how he beat him (coming back from big right hand, adapting to his attacks, and tagging him accurately).

[MOTHER DUCKER]

Who has Floyd ducked? people could argue Margarito i guess? that's pretty much it and there are reasons he didn't want the fight aswell. Now IF he ducks pacman and ends his career he would go greatly down in my estimations... however sidestepping a B- fighter like Margarito doesn't hurt him for me.

[Kid McCoy]

You two under rate Floyd's resume. And context is important here. You don't compare his resume to people that get beat. You compare it to people that didn't. Floyd by far has the best undefeated resume of all time. It's not remotely debatable.

It's not saying much if you want to make Mayweather the best unbeaten fighter ever. His only serious rival for that honour is Marciano and the rest of that group includes such luminaries as Joe Calzaghe, Sven Ottke, Ricardo Lopez, Ike Ibeabuchi, Terry Marsh and Samson Dutch Boy Gym.

Besides, many who saw the first Castillo fight would argue that Floyd isn't really unbeaten anyway.

[Anthony342]

It's not saying much if you want to make Mayweather the best unbeaten fighter ever. His only serious rival for that honour is Marciano and the rest of that group includes such luminaries as Joe Calzaghe, Sven Ottke, Ricardo Lopez, Ike Ibeabuchi, Terry Marsh and Samson Dutch Boy Gym.

Besides, many who saw the first Castillo fight would argue that Floyd isn't really unbeaten anyway.

Yeah exactly. I guess you could also throw in Edwin Valero if you wanted. And don't forget such greats as, uh, Michael Loewe, Pichit Sit****prachan, Harry Simon, and Sven Ottke. Marciano, Calzaghe and Mayweather have really been the only notable unbeaten fighters so far. I even looked this up a few weeeks back to see how many names I could find. Calzaghe more because he's more recent than some others, but only has a few big names on his resume. Mayweather because he's in the modern era as well and is very talented.

That's another good question, who would you guys say is the best undefeated boxer of all-time? I'd say Marciano because I've never heard about him ducking anybody. In fact, he seemed to be a guy from what I've heard who was himself avoided. Is it true Walcott didn't want to give him a title shot at first? They seemed to imply that in one Marciano bio I saw on ESPN once.

[BigStereotype]

It's not saying much if you want to make Mayweather the best unbeaten fighter ever. His only serious rival for that honour is Marciano and the rest of that group includes such luminaries as Joe Calzaghe, Sven Ottke, Ricardo Lopez, Ike Ibeabuchi, Terry Marsh and Samson Dutch Boy Gym.

Besides, many who saw the first Castillo fight would argue that Floyd isn't really unbeaten anyway.

Except Ricardo Lopez is an all time great. He might not have the most star-studded resume, but that actually wasn't his fault. He fought too low for most people to pay attention, but there's no questioning that man's skill. As far as resumes go, I like to consider the eyeball test first and then balance that against a resume.

[BennyST]

Fight the Super 6 winner? In 2012 when he's 34 and will be 38 pounds over where he started? What? A trilogy with Judah is also pretty weird, but other than that, I'd have to agree. Cotto vs. Mayweather right after Cotto-Mosley and Mayweather-Hatton would have been epic.

Yeah, why not. A good example right now would be Pac fighting Margarito, although he was well past it and not nearly the fighter he was, Pac still came up about thirty or more pounds.

Another would be Duran who came up forty or more pounds and won the middleweight title at 38 against a prime, future three division champ coming off his greatest win.

It's not out of the question for the greatest fighters. Maybe the Pac example isn't the best in terms of opposition, as he was in his prime fighting a guy well past it coming off a brutal career ending loss in comparison to fighting the Super Six winner; Andre Ward, Abraham etc. If he did do that though, that would shoot him right up there among the great unexpected feats in boxing.