Ranking Floyd Patterson Above Lennox Lewis, Can It Be Justified?

[sonnyboyx2]

Patterson fought 13 times for the "Undisputed Heavyweight Title"

Lewis fought 2 times for the "Undisputed Title" 16 times for alphabet title.

Lewis was "STRIPPED" of all Undisputed Belts for REFUSING to fight the No1 contenders.

[Davros?]

I am talking of a Machen that was in his prime...When Patterson was teh champ he avoided machen. Nevertheless Maxim was old by the time he faced Patterson but he won(disputed right). He missed Folley there too. Either way he missed top contenders when he was the champ.

Patterson lost to a lot of the guys mentioned period. Lewis won against all of the guys (atleast once). Competition, no doubt patterson met the best, but the best bested him. Lewis beat the greats of his era (far past their primes may be), but still he did it.

You can have Patterson higher no problems, but it should not be based on who he faced, rather who he beat IMO.

Machen lost to Johansson and then Patterson faced Johansson, I don’t know if Machen was past his best when he fought Patterson he hadn’t lost a fight in 3 years but I have not seen any of Machens fights in that period so I don’t know. Patterson was a 13-0 19year old kid when he faced Maxim and won on most people’s cards, Patterson always said that fight did him a lot of good. I don’t really rate Patterson ahead of Lewis or the other way around i never really bother to have a ATG list. It’s to difficult to predict a fight just before it happens let alone have a ATG list.

[Greatest1942]

Patterson fought 13 times for the "Undisputed Heavyweight Title"

Lewis fought 2 times for the "Undisputed Title" 16 times for alphabet title.

Lewis was "STRIPPED" of all Undisputed Belts for REFUSING to fight the No1 contenders.

Agreed here. But does fighting for a title more times make him better? Plus in Patterson's time there was no division of titles. Count the number of times they fought for the title if you want to be objective, Will you? Lewis had to unify the titles , Patterson did not face any such dilemma.

Anyways I made my point so if you persist with your opinion I have no issues. May be in your book those 13 times get much more credit, you have good reasons also may be. Its fine. But look at both sides of the coin.

[Kid McCoy]

Patterson fought 13 times for the "Undisputed Heavyweight Title"

Lewis fought 2 times for the "Undisputed Title" 16 times for alphabet title.

Lewis was "STRIPPED" of all Undisputed Belts for REFUSING to fight the No1 contenders.

Patterson also had many more title fights than Sonny Liston or Sam Langford. Who was better? Patterson probably would have been stripped today for avoiding Liston, Machen and Folley for so long. I can only imagine what you'd say about Lewis if he fought Brian London, Pete Rademacher, Tom McNeeley and Roy Harris.

[sonnyboyx2]

I am talking of a Machen that was in his prime...When Patterson was teh champ he avoided machen. Nevertheless Maxim was old by the time he faced Patterson but he won(disputed right). He missed Folley there too. Either way he missed top contenders when he was the champ.

Patterson lost to a lot of the guys mentioned period. Lewis won against all of the guys (atleast once). Competition, no doubt patterson met the best, but the best bested him. Lewis beat the greats of his era (far past their primes may be), but still he did it.

You can have Patterson higher no problems, but it should not be based on who he faced, rather who he beat IMO.

Have you proof that Patterson avoided Eddie Machen or is it just your theory?... when was Machen the No1 contender for Patterson's title?

Patterson was robbed against Maxim - i have the fight, here is a link

http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?...ey+maxim&hl=en

You are very quick to claim Patterson avoided Machen & Folley while champion yet you ignore the "avoiding" done by Lennox Lewis as champion avoided, "Holmes, Foreman, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Hide, Bowe, Sanders, Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Ruiz & Moorer"

you are quick to point out that when Patterson fought Machen that Machen was "OLD" yet do not point out that when Lewis beat Tyson that Tyson was more than a decade past his best and had served 4yrs in prison and was a shell of the once all time great... you dont point out that Holyfield was years past his best when he fought Lewis and that the score between them should have been 1-1.

Patterson lost to Liston & Muhammad Ali who was both at the very very top of their game with Ali beating Patterson in 1965 being the greatest ever version of Muhammad Ali to ever step into a boxing ring.

Patterson suffered more bad decisions in his career than Glen Johnson has suffered, Patterson was robbed against Quarry twice, Ellis & Maxim which does not leave him looking bad compared to other heavyweight champions.

It is not possible to say who would win between Lewis vs Patterson so we ask.

1/. Would Rahman & McCall KO Patterson?

2/. Would Lewis beat the Ali (1965) & Liston (1962)

Patterson was 2 times Undisputed Heavyweight Champion as well as Fighter of the Year (TWICE) and took part in Fight of the Year 1965

[sonnyboyx2]

Patterson also had many more title fights than Sonny Liston or Sam Langford. Who was better? Patterson probably would have been stripped today for avoiding Liston, Machen and Folley for so long. I can only imagine what you'd say about Lewis if he fought Brian London, Pete Rademacher, Tom McNeeley and Roy Harris.

McNeeley, Harris, Rademacher was all undefeated with Rademacher being the Olympic champion & Brian London being a decent fighter, none of them being as bad as Phil Jackson, Lionel Butler, Michael Grant, Frans Botha, Henry Akinwande, Justin Fortune or Zelko Mavrovic,

Patterson may well have been stripped today for avoiding Liston for so long yet Lewis avoided Ruiz for 3yrs before getting stripped, he was stripped for refusing to fight Chris Byrd & Vitali Klitschko

[Kid McCoy]

McNeeley, Harris, Rademacher was all undefeated with Rademacher being the Olympic champion & Brian London being a decent fighter, none of them being as bad as Phil Jackson, Lionel Butler, Michael Grant, Frans Botha, Henry Akinwande, Justin Fortune or Zelko Mavrovic,

Patterson may well have been stripped today for avoiding Liston for so long yet Lewis avoided Ruiz for 3yrs before getting stripped, he was stripped for refusing to fight Chris Byrd & Vitali Klitschko

Did you just defend Patterson's fights with those guys when Liston, Machen and Folley were his top contenders? That's your trouble. You slate Lewis for everything but make all kinds of excuses for your favoured fighters. You're the only person I've ever known of who thinks Bowe vs Dokes was a worthy title fight.

Holmes, Foreman, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Hide, Bowe, Sanders, Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Ruiz & Moorer"

The funny thing is, if Lewis had actually fought some of them you'd use them as examples of him fighting no hopers and old men instead of proper contenders.

[sonnyboyx2]

Did you just defend Patterson's fights with those guys when Liston, Machen and Folley were his top contenders? That's your trouble. You slate Lewis for everything but make all kinds of excuses for your favoured fighters. You're the only person I've ever known of who thinks Bowe vs Dokes was a worthy title fight.



The funny thing is, if Lewis had actually fought some of them you'd use them as examples of him fighting no hopers and old men instead of proper contenders.

ROFL.... Holmes, Foreman, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Hide, Bowe, Sanders, Wlad, Brewster, Byrd, Ruiz & Mooer was all Heavyweight Champion of the World...

INO Bowe vs Dokes was far more worthy than Lewis vs Grant, Botha or Jackson

[sonnyboyx2]

Did you just defend Patterson's fights with those guys when Liston, Machen and Folley were his top contenders? That's your trouble. You slate Lewis for everything but make all kinds of excuses for your favoured fighters. You're the only person I've ever known of who thinks Bowe vs Dokes was a worthy title fight.



The funny thing is, if Lewis had actually fought some of them you'd use them as examples of him fighting no hopers and old men instead of proper contenders.

i don't make excuses for any fighters and who said Patterson was one of my favorite fighters because i didn't.

It is obvious that you are a Lennox Lewis nuthugger and cannot accept that Lewis was stripped of every version of the heavyweight title for refusing to fight the No1 contenders - Sonny Liston was No1 contender for Patterson's Heavyweight Title and Patterson fought Liston, it was the World Boxing Authorities who did not want Liston as champion who had an issue with Liston not Patterson who fought him twice

[Jim Jeffries]

Patterson fought 13 times for the "Undisputed Heavyweight Title"

Lewis fought 2 times for the "Undisputed Title" 16 times for alphabet title.

Lewis was "STRIPPED" of all Undisputed Belts for REFUSING to fight the No1 contenders.

By my count 12 times (record 7-5) for the undisputed and once for the WBA (record 0-1.) Of course that 12 times includes abhorrent defenses like Rademacher and Brian London.