Ranking Floyd Patterson Above Lennox Lewis, Can It Be Justified?

[sonnyboyx2]

Sonnyboy, do you think Rademacher, McNeeley, Harris and London were deserving challengers? You don't seem to want to answer that question.

yes they was deserving challengers, they was No1 contenders going by those ratings which you provided so of course they was worthy

[sonnyboyx2]

Lennox Lewis career as champion1992-2000
a belt out of the bin in 1992 which he defended against Tucker, Jackson & Bruno before being poleaxed by McCall in 1994 then in 1997 he fought for a vacant belt against McCall in a farcical fight, defended it against 4 mediocre opponents and in 1999 fought a draw for the undisputed title against Holyfield winning a rematch on 13.11.1999
Do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

McCoy...do you agree or disagree with the above?

[Kid McCoy]

yes they was deserving challengers, they was No1 contenders going by those ratings which you provided so of course they was worthy

And you have the bare faced cheek to criticize Lewis for Phil Jackson and Tony Tucker? End of discussion I think.

[Scott9945]

Lewis announced his retirement only days before he was due to be stripped of his last remaining belt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...-in-court.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...WBC-title.html

So he retired as world champion rather than having been stripped of his title. Exactly my point.

[sonnyboyx2]

And you have the bare faced cheek to criticize Lewis for Phil Jackson and Tony Tucker? End of discussion I think.

you know i have beaten you in this discussion, i have fights of McNeely, Harris, London, Rademacher & Jackson they are all decent fighters and nothing remotely like the Drug-Addict who turned up to face Lewis in Tony Tucker or the grossly out of condition Phil Jackson... McNeely beat Logan, Besmanoff & Hunsaker all of who Muhammad Ali fought on his way to the title as well as him being undefeated and Top Ranked, Roy Harris was also undefeated and Top Ranked and had beaten some excellent fighters in Bob Baker, Charlie Norkus, Willie Pastrano & Willie Besmanoff, Tommy"Hurricane"Jackson was also a deserving challenger having beaten Ezzard Charles (twice) Johnny Williams, Lex Layne, Bob Baker & Clarence Henry

[Scott9945]

you know i have beaten you in this discussion, i have fights of McNeely, Harris, London, Rademacher & Jackson they are all decent fighters and nothing remotely like the Drug-Addict who turned up to face Lewis in Tony Tucker or the grossly out of condition Phil Jackson... McNeely beat Logan, Besmanoff & Hunsaker all of who Muhammad Ali fought on his way to the title as well as him being undefeated and Top Ranked, Roy Harris was also undefeated and Top Ranked and had beaten some excellent fighters in Bob Baker, Charlie Norkus, Willie Pastrano & Willie Besmanoff, Tommy"Hurricane"Jackson was also a deserving challenger having beaten Ezzard Charles (twice) Johnny Williams, Lex Layne, Bob Baker & Clarence Henry

Those weren't decent fighters. They all ******. Ok, Jackson was decent. Did you really describe Willie Besmanoff as an "excellent fighter"?

[GJC]

you are talking in riddles and twisting yourself in knots...here is some European Champions who fought for the heavyweight title GJC so take back your comment that "it's not accurate" it is accurate

Well London has never held a European title has he?
Up to Johansson only 2 fighters had ever fought for the world HW title whilst holding the Euro HW title, yes? So I don't think i'm the one twisting here.

Lucian Rodriguez

Yes he did but as I said earlier this was taken as an easy defence by Holmes along with the Cobb defence. See that's the point the Euro title had zero cachet and was only ever used as a hook to justify an easy defence. Also post Patterson

Georges Carpentier

Again he did, he was one of the 2 Euro HW champions in 50 years who got a world title shot before Johanson. Though to say his holding of that title was the reason he got his shot against Dempsey isn't true, the fact he was the World light heavy champion and war hero v slacker etc was the reason as a knowledgeable fellow like yourself will know. Easiest money Dempsey ever earn't

Don ****ell

Never held the Euro HW title did once hold the Euro LHW title but not for 3 years before he fought Marciano

Steffen Tangsted

Covered that, was either part of that unifying tournament or Spinks fought him to stay out of the unifying tornament. Also post Patterson

Lennox Lewis

Simple question had Lewis fought Bowe for the HW title would it have been because he was Euro champion or because he beat Ruddock in the eliminator for the WBC title? Post Patterson

Karl Mildenberger

Fought by Ali as part of a European tour to do with his draft problems. Ali fought Cooper and London before Mildenberger so obviously his being the European champion didn't hold too much weight.

Paulino Uzcudun

He was the other one of the 2 Euro HW champions in 50 years who got a world title shot before Johanson. Lets be fair here Carnera's 2nd defence was against the light hitting Loughran so not the 2 hardest defences by a carefully handled fighter.

Zeljko Mavrovic

Pretty much moving into the European era here so wouldn't argue that the European title has more cachet now but totally reject your contention that the European title gave its holder an automatic fast track to a world title fight in Patterson's time. Or if it does then why do you give Lewis so much stick for defending against this fighter? Got to be one or the other surely? Post Patterson

Henry Akinwande

Hadn't held the Euro title for over 2 years when he fought Lewis

Lorenzo Zanon

Taken as an easy defence by Holmes after Shavers again used as a hook to justify an easy defence. Also post Patterson

Richard Dunn

Taken as an easy defence by Ali before the 3rd Norton fight the fact that Dunn only won the title a month before fighting Ali leads me to believe it had zero relevance when the fight was signed .Also post Patterson

Joe Bugner

Bugner had held the European title for 3 years before he fought Ali so didn't do him much good. Beating Ellis and Mac Foster probably did more to get him his shot, no? Post Patterson

Henry Cooper

Didn't hold the Euro title when he fought Ali got the fight because he knocked Ali down in the first fight.Post Patterson

Audley Harrison

As I said earlier Euro title does have a little more cachet these days due to the Euro age. Actually Dimitrenko holds the Euro title but come on here Sonny you thought that Haye was justified or indeed under any obligation to fight Harrison last night because he held the European title? Also post Patterson

Whatever that book is that your reading on European Boxing i suggest you invest in one that is factual

Sonny like I said you are a knowledgeable fellow but you seem to sulk and get personal when someone doesn't agree with the assumptions you make, its not a good trait my friend. The point I made was your statement that the European title gave its holder a fast track to a world title shot is not accurate. Currently the Europeans are dominating the world heavyweight scene but Harrison was the first European title holder in ten years to get a shot? In Patterson's day it had zero credibility.

[sonnyboyx2]

Lennox Lewis career as champion1992-2000
a belt out of the bin in 1992 which he defended against Tucker, Jackson & Bruno before being poleaxed by McCall in 1994 then in 1997 he fought for a vacant belt against McCall in a farcical fight, defended it against 4 mediocre opponents and in 1999 fought a draw for the undisputed title against Holyfield winning a rematch on 13.11.1999
Do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

you claimed "Lewis was Dominant"... when?

above is Lewis career from the period 1992-2000 and in that time we had these fights

Holyfield vs Bowe 1
Holyfield vs Bowe 2
Holyfield vs Bowe 3
Foreman vs Morrison
Foreman vs Moorer
Holyfield vs Holmes
Holyfield vs Moorer 1
Holyfield vs Moorer 2
Holyfield vs Tyson 1
Holyfield vs Tyson 2
Tyson vs Bruno 2
McCall vs Holmes
McCall vs Bruno

Yet you claim Lewis was dominant

[sonnyboyx2]

Well London has never held a European title has he?
Up to Johansson only 2 fighters had ever fought for the world HW title whilst holding the Euro HW title, yes? So I don't think i'm the one twisting here.


Yes he did but as I said earlier this was taken as an easy defence by Holmes along with the Cobb defence. See that's the point the Euro title had zero cachet and was only ever used as a hook to justify an easy defence. Also post Patterson

Again he did, he was one of the 2 Euro HW champions in 50 years who got a world title shot before Johanson. Though to say his holding of that title was the reason he got his shot against Dempsey isn't true, the fact he was the World light heavy champion and war hero v slacker etc was the reason as a knowledgeable fellow like yourself will know. Easiest money Dempsey ever earn't

Never held the Euro HW title did once hold the Euro LHW title but not for 3 years before he fought Marciano

Covered that, was either part of that unifying tournament or Spinks fought him to stay out of the unifying tornament. Also post Patterson

Simple question had Lewis fought Bowe for the HW title would it have been because he was Euro champion or because he beat Ruddock in the eliminator for the WBC title? Post Patterson

Fought by Ali as part of a European tour to do with his draft problems. Ali fought Cooper and London before Mildenberger so obviously his being the European champion didn't hold too much weight.

He was the other one of the 2 Euro HW champions in 50 years who got a world title shot before Johanson. Lets be fair here Carnera's 2nd defence was against the light hitting Loughran so not the 2 hardest defences by a carefully handled fighter.

Pretty much moving into the European era here so wouldn't argue that the European title has more cachet now but totally reject your contention that the European title gave its holder an automatic fast track to a world title fight in Patterson's time. Or if it does then why do you give Lewis so much stick for defending against this fighter? Got to be one or the other surely? Post Patterson

Hadn't held the Euro title for over 2 years when he fought Lewis

Taken as an easy defence by Holmes after Shavers again used as a hook to justify an easy defence. Also post Patterson

Taken as an easy defence by Ali before the 3rd Norton fight the fact that Dunn only won the title a month before fighting Ali leads me to believe it had zero relevance when the fight was signed .Also post Patterson

Bugner had held the European title for 3 years before he fought Ali so didn't do him much good. Beating Ellis and Mac Foster probably did more to get him his shot, no? Post Patterson

Didn't hold the Euro title when he fought Ali got the fight because he knocked Ali down in the first fight.Post Patterson

As I said earlier Euro title does have a little more cachet these days due to the Euro age. Actually Dimitrenko holds the Euro title but come on here Sonny you thought that Haye was justified or indeed under any obligation to fight Harrison last night because he held the European title? Also post Patterson



Sonny like I said you are a knowledgeable fellow but you seem to sulk and get personal when someone doesn't agree with the assumptions you make, its not a good trait my friend. The point I made was your statement that the European title gave its holder a fast track to a world title shot is not accurate. Currently the Europeans are dominating the world heavyweight scene but Harrison was the first European title holder in ten years to get a shot? In Patterson's day it had zero credibility.

You stated that i was "INCORRECT" and i was not incorrect, if you have a problem with the European Boxing Board and why European Champions fight for a world title then go and take it up with them, put your case forward to them that you think they are being used as "easy defenses" etc etc... i said there was a dozen or more european champions had fought for the heavyweight title... you said i was incorrect but it now turns out that i am "Correct" so you are now claiming they was all just easy defences etc etc etc etc.. walofs

[GJC]

yes they was deserving challengers, they was No1 contenders going by those ratings which you provided so of course they was worthy

Think your stretching here Sonny I remember Patterson's era very very well.
No problems with his defence against Jackson and Johanson deserved his shot because he beat Machen oh and Rademacher was unbeaten
But from 59 Liston was the man to beat to say otherwise is just being silly