Bert Sugar ''Pernell Whiatker IS NOT a Top 40 ATG''

[XionComrade]

That's kind of like losing to.....Ross Purrity.

Poet

Or Lamon Brewster...Or Corrie Sanders...The real irrational person here is the one giving Sanders a one up on Earnie Shavers....And yes, Michael Spinks punching power was comparable to many middleweights...But Julian Jackson's power is comparable to most heavyweights....It's almost contradictory of me to say that O.o

[Scott9945]

That's kind of like losing to.....Ross Purrity.

Poet

Ha...good one. But the OP was saying that there was no reasonable way that Wladimir could beat Shavers. He was beaten by some clearly inferior fighters to WK, yet there is no reasonable chance? To me that is irrational.

[XionComrade]

Ha...good one. But the OP was saying that there was no reasonable way that Wladimir could beat Shavers. He was beaten by some clearly inferior fighters to WK, yet there is no reasonable chance? To me that is irrational.

I forgot to mention Prime to Prime...IE the Shavers that fought Smith, Norton, Ali or especially Ron Lyle Vs. The Wlad that fought Peter either time...Obviously Shavers' actual prime came in short bursts, I hear he had a bad work ethic in the gym. Watch Peter fight...Then watch Shavers...I think you will get my point.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ha...good one. But the OP was saying that there was no reasonable way that Wladimir could beat Shavers. He was beaten by some clearly inferior fighters to WK, yet there is no reasonable chance? To me that is irrational.

Sure there's a reasonable chance. I just don't think I'd put money on it. Shavers' punch Vs. Wlad's chin is not a matchup I like methinks. I'd personally favor Quarry pretty consistantly over Wlad. Bonevena is more problematical as he was a pretty damn limited fighter and not a one-punch KO guy to make up for it.

Poet

[Scott9945]

Sure there's a reasonable chance. I just don't think I'd put money on it. Shavers' punch Vs. Wlad's chin is not a matchup I like methinks. I'd personally favor Quarry pretty consistantly over Wlad. Bonevena is more problematical as he was a pretty damn limited fighter and not a one-punch KO guy to make up for it.

Poet

I don't agree about Quarry, but the rest makes sense. Shavers was one of the hardest hitters in boxing history, so he has a big punchers chance against anybody, ever. If he were a better fighter he would have KO'd Ali in the 2nd round of their fight. I can easily see Shavers hurting Wladimir and then choking like he did against Ali and Holmes.

And I think that this thread has gotten WAY off the original topic, lol.

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't agree about Quarry, but the rest makes sense. Shavers was one of the hardest hitters in boxing history, so he has a big punchers chance against anybody, ever. If he were a better fighter he would have KO'd Ali in the 2nd round of their fight. I can easily see Shavers hurting Wladimir and then choking like he did against Ali and Holmes.

The key though is Wlad doesn't have near the chin that Ali and Holmes had. Those are proven world-class whiskers.

Quarry gets grossly underrated. He had high profile losses to Ali and Frazier that made him the butt of Richard Pryor jokes but lets face it: That was Ali and Frazier he lost to ffs. I would expect any non-ATG fighter to lose to those two. In a weaker era Quarry may well have been a champion.

And I think that this thread has gotten WAY off the original topic, lol.

That frequently happens when one puts the words "Bert Sugar" in a thread or post :chuckle9: Someone will always throw in an "Oh yeah Bert said X too". In my view the guy is a joke but as I'm fond of saying even a stopped clock is right twice a day. In the case of Wlad versus the above I don't think it's so off base to warrent people going ape**** over it.....on the other hand Pernell not being in the top 40 p4p has me wondering what Bert has in that cigar.

Poet

[Check_hooks]

bert sugar likes to rank those old time fighers that fought ALOT and have like a hundred wins, he doesnt rank fighters on a who would beat who, if he did it would be difficult and very subjective

[Heeb]

Pernell Whitaker is my all time favorite fighter. Luckily, Bert Sugar's opinion means nothing to me.

[XionComrade]

I don't agree about Quarry, but the rest makes sense. Shavers was one of the hardest hitters in boxing history, so he has a big punchers chance against anybody, ever. If he were a better fighter he would have KO'd Ali in the 2nd round of their fight. I can easily see Shavers hurting Wladimir and then choking like he did against Ali and Holmes.

And I think that this thread has gotten WAY off the original topic, lol.

Lol yes, we forgot about Whiatker about 30 posts ago XD

I can see Shavers losing to Vitali 6 out of 8 fights, but Vitali will have to run and stay away ala Holmes and Ali. I can see Shavers winning over Wlad 5 to 7, Earnie Pressures early and gets the KO in round one or two...Neither has ever faced a fighter quite like Earnie, and they have very few wins over fighters of his caliber, if any.

[Scott9945]

The key though is Wlad doesn't have near the chin that Ali and Holmes had. Those are proven world-class whiskers.

Quarry gets grossly underrated. He had high profile losses to Ali and Frazier that made him the butt of Richard Pryor jokes but lets face it: That was Ali and Frazier he lost to ffs. I would expect any non-ATG fighter to lose to those two. In a weaker era Quarry may well have been a champion.

It's kinda sounding like Quarry only lost to Frazier and Ali. You can examine his record and find a lot more flaws than that.

I'm not pleased to be downgrading Quarry. I had much respect for him as a fighter and was lucky enough to talk to him personally a couple of times. He did come up with big performances (Foster, Shavers, Lyle) when he was mostly counted out. But these were other second tier level heavies of that era. In the fights that mattered the most, he always came up short. That's the sign of a perennial contender and not a champion.