The greatest fighters of each nation.

[BigStereotype]

Try doing a little research and you might just find out how good Peter Jackson actually was.

Poet

No doubt, the Lord of the Rings movies are awesome...oh right. But it's hard to rank fighters you've never seen. Aren't you a huge supporter of the eyeball test? Boxing isn't like baseball where you can glean everything you need from numbers. I'd definitely put Fenech ahead of any fighter from the 1800's. Now I don't know if he's actually better, but I can see with my own two eyes that Fenech was a very good fighter and you just can't do that with fighters that old.

[StarshipTrooper]

No doubt, the Lord of the Rings movies are awesome...oh right. But it's hard to rank fighters you've never seen. Aren't you a huge supporter of the eyeball test? Boxing isn't like baseball where you can glean everything you need from numbers. I'd definitely put Fenech ahead of any fighter from the 1800's. Now I don't know if he's actually better, but I can see with my own two eyes that Fenech was a very good fighter and you just can't do that with fighters that old.

I have no problems seeing what boxing historians have to say about a fighter. They have, after all, more expertise than your run-of-the-mill boxing fan. I give a lot of weight to what the experts say about a fighter up and until I see something close to conclusive that they're wrong in a particular instance. I don't, for example, need to see Jack Johnson to know he was a great fighter. In fact there is very little video of him.....mostly grainy highlights. It doesn't make him somehow less than great simply because the footage isn't there.

Poet

[Jeff Da Maori]

I could care less where they fought out of.....the only thing I count is where they come from. Simon Brown fought out of Washington DC but guess what? He's a Jamaican. End of story. The Klitschkos fight out of Germany are we supposed to count them as Krauts now? Come on. As for Donovan it's not exactly MY fault New Zealand has never produced any native born fighters of note.

Poet

That is a completely different set of circumstances to ones that surrounded Fitzsimmons and Tua and a quite ridiculous comparison frankly.

Both Tua and Fitzsimmons moved to New Zealand at very early ages, something I have no doubts that you know already, but are choosing to compare with the Klitschko's business/career based decision to use Germany as a base in an effort to make a weak point.

Getting back to Donovan, I still think you knew nothing about him but placed him on your list thinking (somewhat correctly) that NZ hasn't got much of a boxing history and nobody will call you on it (not so correct)

I'll freely admit to not knowing a damn thing about him other than what boxrec states so if you'd be so kind as to prove me wrong Sir and tell me what you know............

[StarshipTrooper]

That is a completely different set of circumstances to ones that surrounded Fitzsimmons and Tua and a quite ridiculous comparison frankly.

Both Tua and Fitzsimmons moved to New Zealand at very early ages, something I have no doubts that you know already, but are choosing to compare with the Klitschko's business/career based decision to use Germany as a base in an effort to make a weak point.

Getting back to Donovan, I still think you knew nothing about him but placed him on your list thinking (somewhat correctly) that NZ hasn't got much of a boxing history and nobody will call you on it (not so correct)

I'll freely admit to not knowing a damn thing about him other than what boxrec states so if you'd be so kind as to prove me wrong Sir and tell me what you know............

Ooooo! Sorry if I hurt you national pride but I'm not in the business of ego-boosting. Deal with it. As to the other, it was a VERY valid point: You simply can't accept it because it hurts your poor wittle feelings that the best NZ has to offer is club fighter with an inflated record. Deal with it. You don't grab to grab other peeps fighters just to salve your wounded national pride

Poet

[Jeff Da Maori]

Ooooo! Sorry if I hurt you national pride but I'm not in the business of ego-boosting. Deal with it. As to the other, it was a VERY valid point: You simply can't accept it because it hurts your poor wittle feelings that the best NZ has to offer is club fighter with an inflated record. Deal with it. You don't grab to grab other peeps fighters just to salve your wounded national pride

Poet

Settle down Princess, I only asked you to tell me what you know about Harry Donovan. It's not my fault that you don't actually know anything and can't admit it, is it now?

[aus box]

Try doing a little research and you might just find out how good Peter Jackson actually was.

Poet

research like what exactly hes from the 1800's there isnt any footage ohhhh i get it u want me to boxrec his record or take some other guys word for it coz essentially that is all your doing u havnt seen him

just admit u were trying to show off how smart u are by putting down names on the list no one else would have heard of

[Dave Rado]

Agree with all except Wilde but that is subjective, do you count Bob Fitzsimmons as a boxer from Britain or New Zealand ?, if NZ then it is Wilde but if not then it's Fitzsimmons, imo anyway.

Good call. He's usually counted as British but that's really only because New Zealand was still a colony back then. If it had been an independent country, like it is now, he'd have been a New Zealand citizen and would have been counted as a New Zealander - especially as he never actually fought in Britain, and never lived there after he was 9.

But both boxrec and Wikipedia do list him as British, and he was a British citizen, as well as having been born in Britain, so technically I guess he was British. And you're right, he deserves to be ranked slightly higher than Wilde.

That makes Britain the only non-US country with two fighters in most P4P top 20s.

[Dave Rado]

Who cares where they were born. It matters where they lived and what country they fought for. And Tua fought for New Zealand.

Tua is a New Zealand citizen, and that's all that counts. It's your citizenship that determines what country you represent.

Fitzsimmons' case is more complex, because he would undoubtedly have been a New Zealand citizen if New Zealand had been an independent country back then, as he grew up there and his family had permanently emigrated there; but because it was still a colony, he was a British citizen, and for that reason, combined with having been born in Britain, is usually counted as being British.

[Dave Rado]

Fine listings my man. Your choices of course and i can only add Julian Jackson from The ****** Islands or maybe Prince Naseem Hamed from The Yeman.

Naseem was British, not only by citizenship but also by birth.

[Dave Rado]

Good post.



Hamed made 15 defences at featherweight.

He had the power of a middlweight. Thats why hes the greatest Brit imo.

His resume is not even remotely comparable with any of the top 5 British boxers of all time. The first future Hall of Famer he bumped into, schooled him. And then instead of regrouping and coming back like a great champion would, he fell to pieces and retired. His wins were against solid but not elite (in historical terms) fighters. Plus he avoided another future Hall of Famer, his mandatory, JMM, for years. He's not even generally ranked as one of the ten best Featherweights of all time (boxingscene only rank him #20), whereas Wilde is generally ranked as the #1 Flyweight of all time. To compare Hamed with the likes of Wilde and Fitzsimmons and Ted "Kid" Lewis or even Lennox Lewis is just blasphemy. Hamed probably just sc****s into the top 10 British fighters of all time but he doesn't even sniff the top 5.

In any case, even if you want to judge it purely in terms of punching power, he doesn't get the #1 spot. In The Ring's 100 greatest punchers of all time, Jimmy Wilde is ranked #3, Bob Fitzsimmons is ranked #8, Lennox Lewis is ranked #33, and Hamed is ranked #46. So even purely in terms of punching power, Hamed only gets ranked #4 among British fighters. And there's a lot more to being a great boxer than just punching power in any case. Ernie Shavers is ranked #10 in The Ring's "greatest punchers of all time", but he was a long way from being an ATG boxer.

Hamed was a great talent but he wasted it.