Jess Willard not as bad as many seem to think

[Spartacus Sully]

True. But Spinks beating a tired old Ali is comparable to Willard beating a tired old Jack Johnson.

cept johnson went on to win his next 17 matches.

where as ali won his rematch then lost lost and retired.

[Scott9945]

cept johnson went on to win his next 17 matches.

where as ali won his rematch then lost lost and retired.

Yeah, Johnson fought 17 unrated nobodies in foreign countries. Not exactly Larry Holmes or even Trevor Berbick.

[Spartacus Sully]

Yeah, Johnson fought 17 unrated nobodies in foreign countries. Not exactly Larry Holmes or even Trevor Berbick.

so? fact is he went on to fight for another 17 years of his life. at the time he fought Willard he was just barely over the half way point of his career.

if he was old and tired when he fought Willard i dont see him fighting another 17 years.

[Scott9945]

so? fact is he went on to fight for another 17 years of his life. at the time he fought Willard he was just barely over the half way point of his career.

if he was old and tired when he fought Willard i dont see him fighting another 17 years.

The later part of Johnson's career was basically a carnival tour. Nobody considers it when they are evaluating his career. Most likely he kept fighting simply because he needed the money.

And you're really saying that Johnson wasn't past his peak and weary from being hounded by US law enforcement? This is the general concensus among boxing historians.

[Spartacus Sully]

The later part of Johnson's career was basically a carnival tour. Nobody considers it when they are evaluating his career. Most likely he kept fighting simply because he needed the money.

And you're really saying that Johnson wasn't past his peak and weary from being hounded by US law enforcement? This is the general concensus among boxing historians.

past his peak sure but not tired and out of shape like ali was against spinks.

and he had only been running for like 2 years when the willard fight took place. 5 years later in 1920 when he turned himself in id say he was weary from running from the police, but not for the willard fight.

[JAB5239]

past his peak sure but not tired and out of shape like ali was against spinks.

and he had only been running for like 2 years when the willard fight took place. 5 years later in 1920 when he turned himself in id say he was weary from running from the police, but not for the willard fight.

I think everyone can agree both had seen much better days and would have never lost to either fighter (Willard and Spinks) had they been respectively closer to their primes.

[Spartacus Sully]

I think everyone can agree both had seen much better days and would have never lost to either fighter (Willard and Spinks) had they been respectively closer to their primes.

id say ali would have never lost to spinks closer to his prime but in the early century boxing was alot more about taking hits, hitting hard, and having stamina. due to that even against a prime johnson id still have to give Willard a punchers chance.

[JAB5239]

id say ali would have never lost to spinks closer to his prime but in the early century boxing was alot more about taking hits, hitting hard, and having stamina. due to that even against a prime johnson id still have to give Willard a punchers chance.

I would also give Willard a punchers chance. But when he was peak Johnson was one of the best defensive fighters to have graced the ring. He was also able to absorb punches from some pretty hard hitters.

[Spartacus Sully]

I would also give Willard a punchers chance. But when he was peak Johnson was one of the best defensive fighters to have graced the ring. He was also able to absorb punches from some pretty hard hitters.

id say alot of johnsons defensive skills came from tying people up while he may have been one of the best defensive fighters i think willards reach, jab, and about the same foot speed would easily allow willard to avoid the clinching effectivly making johnsons defense not much better then say gans or fitzsimmons whom still had great defense but they didnt have johnsons clinching skills.

Ive never seen the fight but does willard do an effective job at avoiding the clinches?

with an wrench throw into johnsons clinching its really just chin for chin punch for punch stamina for stamina with johnson having a better guard and able to react more quickly via stance.

ill stick with a punchers chance but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a prime johnson lost to a prime willard.

[JAB5239]

id say alot of johnsons defensive skills came from tying people up while he may have been one of the best defensive fighters i think willards reach, jab, and about the same foot speed would easily allow willard to avoid the clinching effectivly making johnsons defense not much better then say gans or fitzsimmons whom still had great defense but they didnt have johnsons clinching skills.

Ive never seen the fight but does willard do an effective job at avoiding the clinches?

with an wrench throw into johnsons clinching its really just chin for chin punch for punch stamina for stamina with johnson having a better guard and able to react more quickly via stance.

ill stick with a punchers chance but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if a prime johnson lost to a prime willard.

Johnson was renowned for his ability to pick punches off and block with his gloves. As far as the clinching goes....Jack manhandles an old but incredibly strong Jeffries. I don't think its a stretch to think he could do the same to big Jess.