Larry Holmes and Wladimir Klitschko. Titlereign comparison.

["The Hitman"]

It's a common assumtion that the heavies of today are the worst crop ever. Outside the K-bros the contenders are terrible. Of course it's a subjective reasoning.

My feeling is that the era of Joe Louis and more recently Larry Holmes also had a pretty weak cast.

This thread will show a strenght comparison between the (alphabet) titlereigns of Larry Holmes and Wlad Klitschko.

For the sake of this thread I will only measure Larry Holmes 'first' career and deal with Wlad's as if he retired today.


Record in titlefights:

Wlad: 16-2 (14 KO's)
Holmes: 20-3 (14 KO's)



Strenght of schedule (Ring magazine ranking of opponent):

U = Outside top 10.

RED = Loss

Wlad: 10, U, U, U, U, 9, U, U, 1, 7, U, 7, 6, 8, U, 3, 4, U

Holmes: 3, 8, 10, 4, 5, 7, 6, 10, U, 7, 8, 11, 3, 10, 0, 10, 4, 9, U, 1, 1.


Notable opponents not fought:

Wlad: Vitali Klitschko, David Haye, Lennox Lewis.

Holmes: Mike Weaver II, Micheal Dokes, Pinklon Thomas.

So basically already you've proved that Larry Holmes' title reign is better than Wlad's and IMO he is by far a superior boxer.

[StarshipTrooper]

What this just shows is how boxing is now a global sport and not strictly an American one. It shows how boxing today is much better than it has ever been because you have fighters represented from all across the world.

Its a global sport now, there really wasnt a world heavyweight champion till recently, its like the yankees being the "world" series champion or Lakers being "world" champions. They were all pretty much the western world champion. Now its a global sport, its harder to rank guys when they all arent fighting the same guys over and over in the same places.

Actually that's called watering down the talent pool by letting a bunch of inferior Euro-bums in :loser9:

Poet

[Die Antwoord]

Lewis vs Wlad is a fight that could have happened even though Lewis was at the very end of his career when Wlad was ''ready'' to fight him. So it is a legitimate ''missed'' fight.

Haha how the hell does that video prove the fight could happen. What the hell are you talking about? Youre clearly just trolling, that video is from after the Brock fight. THE BROCK FIGHT WAS NOVEMBER 2006...3.5 YEARS AFTER LEWIS'S LAST FIGHT. What are you talking about? I mean seriously. Lewis would talk trash, but it was just to keep his name out there. What a joke you are. How is that a miss? Not fighting a guy who is retired years after retirement who says theyd be interested in a fight?

Ali never fought Marciano I guess he ducked him right? This is a complete joke. LEWIS WAS 3 YEARS RETIRED.

Wow, Klitschko haters man...there stuff is so tired.

[Tiozzo]

Haha how the hell does that video prove the fight could happen. What the hell are you talking about? Youre clearly just trolling, that video is from after the Brock fight. THE BROCK FIGHT WAS NOVEMBER 2006...3.5 YEARS AFTER LEWIS'S LAST FIGHT. What are you talking about? I mean seriously. Lewis would talk trash, but it was just to keep his name out there. What a joke you are. How is that a miss? Not fighting a guy who is retired years after retirement who says theyd be interested in a fight?

Ali never fought Marciano I guess he ducked him right? This is a complete joke. LEWIS WAS 3 YEARS RETIRED.

Wow, Klitschko haters man...there stuff is so tired.

why do you flame ****** ?

where did I write Wlad ducked Lewis ****** ?

why are you so ******ed ****** ?

don't you know (******) that Wlad was a title holder (WBO) when Lewis was still fighting, from 2000 to 2003 when Sanders dethroned him ?

don't you know ****** that Wlad packed 5 wins after defeating Byrd for the WBO title in 2000 ? and you think Lewis couldn't have fit in somewhere before his retirement (******) ? this fight could have happened if that's what Lewis would have liked to happen (******)

bye ******

[Tiozzo]

So basically already you've proved that Larry Holmes' title reign is better than Wlad's and IMO he is by far a superior boxer.

Bat agenda and thread have backfired on him obviously

[Scott9945]

Holmes fought by far more terrible fighters. If you want a list:

Scott Frank
Marvis Frazier
Ossie Ocasio
Lucien Rodriguez
Lorenzo Zanon
Alfredo Evangelista

These guys weren't even on the level of Ray Austin when Holmes fought them.

Now here is a list of top heavyweights of the early 1980's who Holmes never fought:

Pinklon Thomas
Gerrie Coetzee
Greg Page
Mike Dokes

Holmes never gave rematches to Norton or Witherspoon after very close wins. I won't even count Carl Williams because he lost his title in his next fight. Larry was an excellent champion, but has benefited from what I call a "convenient memory" concerning his title reign.

[crold1]

Wlad-Lewis was well on its way to happening but then Corrie Sanders burst that bubble. There was plenty of time for such a fight anywhere from 2000-early 03; Wlad and Vitali were both moved WAY methodically and it hurt their early development. Considering their amateur pedigree, and number of fights, they were beyond ready to challenge for the real crown by 2000/01. It was par for the Kohl course and they both did better things when they were on their own.

[BattlingNelson]

Wait, Wlad's notable opponents not fought includes Lewis? When was he supposed to do that? The only opponents Lewis fought after Wlad became a HW champ was a Rahman rematch,Tyson and Vitali...how was Wlad supposed to fight him.


Youre going to hold it against Wlad that he didnt fight a guy whose last HW fight was in june of 2003 when Wlad's significant reign and the most dominant reign of all time began in 2005?). Also hes not going to fight his brother, and he has tried to fight David haye and even signed a contract with him. Oh and he's still no where close to done. Wlad has a good 4 more years left in him and at his current pace thats about 11 more KO wins against top guys.

I stated only the objective parts in the threadstarter. It's a fact that Wlad didn't fight Lewis and it's also a fact that Wlad was the top contender for about 2 years during Lewis reign. As said by crold untill he met Sanders.

I am not holding it against him at all. I'm just stating the objective parts. There might be various reasons as to why Wlad didn't fight Lewis, Vitali and Haye and those reasons is likely no fault of Wlads.

Also the ring top 10 HWs is just one ranking, the real issue is that the top 30 hw's dont fight eachother. How do you know Tomasz Adamek is better than Sam Peter or Chagaev? I dont know that, you dont know that, hell I think Chagaev would beat Adamek and haye. Even an old Rahman I think could beat quite a few people in the top 10 and I would have ranked above Solis. Wlad fought Rahman to shut the fans up, that was the only reason he did it, a lot of people did that, Berbick and leon spinks were ranked by ring, but those dudes were terrible, but it was the same thing, holmes fought them to help assert a legacy.

I simply used The Ring rankings as they are thought to be unbiased. You can be of the opinion that the contenders of Holmes era is worse than those of Wlad and you are perfectly entitled to. It's subjective and others might disagree.

What this just shows is how boxing is now a global sport and not strictly an American one. It shows how boxing today is much better than it has ever been because you have fighters represented from all across the world.

Wlad-Ukraine
Vitali Ukraine
Haye-England
Adamek-Poland
Povetkin-Russia
Arreola-Mexico/US
Chambers-US
Solis-Cuba
Chagaev-Uzbek
Thompson-American
Peter-Nigeria
Tua-Samoa

Its a global sport now, there really wasnt a world heavyweight champion till recently, its like the yankees being the "world" series champion or Lakers being "world" champions. They were all pretty much the western world champion. Now its a global sport, its harder to rank guys when they all arent fighting the same guys over and over in the same places.

I guess you are implying that the current field of fighters is larger than it was before the fall of the iron curtain?

If so I doubt that very much as the number of active fighters in USA and the UK has dropped big time and likely wont be made up for by pros from eastern Europe and the former sovjet.

[BattlingNelson]

what else is ?

we can see that Holmes has had a better overall opposition during his title reign, and since the reign of Holmes is considered to be among the most weak (next to Marciano), then what kind of conclusion will you get ?

but actually, I'm surprised that there aren't more top 10 ranked challengers on Wlad's record, although I knew Holmes had the better title fights record looking at the guys they beat

Plenty of titleholders in heavyweight history have had much worse reigns than Wlad. I hope I don't need to take you to school on this matter.

[BattlingNelson]

Bat agenda and thread have backfired on him obviously

What agenda was that?